Atypical collie really is atypical collie... DNA test surprise!

[Flamerouge]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to my questions on this thread about my collie: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/4158443-Atypical-collie?pg=3

I thought you'd like to know that the results of DDog's DNA test are in, and he is NOT a purebred collie! Apparently he is 75% collie and 25% Australian Kelpie! So, a herding dog crossed with a herding dog.

It doesn't make much difference to how I'll be approaching things with him as he is obviously largely collie but with an added Antipodean slant. So if anyone has any experience/advice on Kelpies, do let me know. But I'm pleased we know, and the 25% explains his atypical longer legs and snout. I think black purebred collies are probably quite unusual, and his black bits are jet black with a russet tinge, which definitely looks more Kelpie. I like the idea of a crossbreed for health, too.

We've had a generally good week with him: I've been crating him for an hour or so every morning and evening to encourage him to switch off and relax. He's really good at wandering in to his crate so when he does I treat him then shut the door. And a couple of times in the day when he goes in I just treat him and let him wander out again.

This morning I had a really nice walk with him - we saw dogs from a distance and even at a distance that I thought he would react to and he didn't. So that was good. The reactivity in the car is still a real struggle, but small signs of improvement.

Any thoughts on his Kelpie heritage greatly appreciated!

Ooh boy. He will need work. Lots of it.

www.wkc.org.au/About-Kelpies/The-Working-Kelpie-As-A-Pet.php

@TheSandgroper yep! As soon as lockdown is over I am hoping to start agility, flyball or canicross with him. As you'll see from the other thread he has reactivity issues at the moment, so we are working on those.

Luckily there are two of us at home with him at the moment and there will always be one, so he does have lots of interaction. Can't wait for better weather (and for him to be a bit older - he is not one yet) so I can get him running with me...

m.youtube.com/watch?v=B4bb_-T2cDg

They are fabulous dogs.

🤣🤣🤣🤣
I was going to comment on that thread and say I thought like he had kelpie in him!
Damn I’m good 😉

Kelpies are very like collies but more full on.

@MrsAntiSocial so annoying when that happens. Give yourself a pat on the back! I should have asked you instead of spending ££ on DNA testing...

I am in denial about kelpies being more full-on than collies. At least the Kelpie bit is the minority of his DNA!

@TheSandgroper thank you - will take a look.

My experience with kelpies is that they are very hardwired to movement, can get very frustrated with learning new things but are amazing dogs with the stamina of no other dog!

Agility can be too much for some kelpies as there instincts are to stop and start movement so running with a handler can be challenging and stressful for some of them.

They can get quite frustrated so very calm training with a lot of reinforcement is needed. Work out what is his best reinforcement and you are on to a winner.

He will need to be taught to chill as you are doing.

The car can be a hard work for a kelpie as they are seeing all this movement flashing past them and they need to stop it. You may find a covered crate is the way to go. Then he will not be driven crazy trying to stop everything rushing past him.

their!!!! sorry

@PollyRoulson I will forgive you any amount of ungrammatical phrases because your post was so helpful, thank you.

Especially on the car point. I've been sat thinking I need to get a new car etc (we do, but not right this second) as we only have a Golf so can't have DDog in the boot, as too small. But of course I just need to put the back seats down and get him a car crate. No idea why I didn't think of that sooner! There's only two of us in the car usually so it would be fine. And I know it would be safer, as well.

And noted re agility. I should say, I'm not set on any activity for him - but I feel like he would benefit from some sort of training and focus. Canicross might be good (I already run a bit). We'll see when lockdown lifts if there is anywhere near-ish that he can have a try-out.

Yes, teaching him to chill is definitely the way forward. He is like an over-tired toddler - his job at the moment is to herd his house-flock so he can't switch off unless he is in his crate.

He is currently with the dog-sitter, who he LOVES. Just for a few hours. We will gradually increase the time he is with her as I think mentally it is good for him to be with other dogs and people, too...

At the end of the day he's a dog. Yes some dogs have traits however all dogs are trainable. Because he's a small percentage another breed he's more collie.

At the end of the day he's a dog. Yes some dogs have traits however all dogs are trainable. Because he's a small percentage another breed he's more collie
The differences between some breeds are really profound though.
It isn’t as simple as thinking ‘they are all dogs’
Collies/kelpies/shepherds especially are very different to other breeds.

At the end of the day he's a dog. Yes some dogs have traits however all dogs are trainable. Because he's a small percentage another breed he's more collie

It is much easier to work with predatory motor patterns than against them They are both herding breeds but useful to note that Kelpies will happily herd cattle so have a very very strong drive.

@Sitdowncupoftea

At the end of the day he's a dog. Yes some dogs have traits however all dogs are trainable. Because he's a small percentage another breed he's more collie.

But breed can be so important when it comes to training your dog. If you know your dogs' strengths and weaknesses, you have the best chance of getting them to do what they want.

I have a beagle so he's a scent hound - I train him with food or things like rabbit fur tugs, because that's what he's motivated by. Other dogs are motivated by balls, tugs, or having something to carry in their mouths. Some are happy with just a "good boy!" and a fuss behind the ears.

Of course all dogs are trainable but the more knowledge about breed/background we have as owners, the easier we'll find it.

'Of course all dogs are trainable but the more knowledge about breed/background we have as owners, the easier we'll find it.' Exactly this from @sunflowersandbuttercups.

Ddog has a lot in common with other dogs - but he also has a lot of quirks that you won't find in other dogs. He is motivated by movement, and herding, and as @PollyRoulson it's much easier to work with that than against. You can't discipline his inherent nature out of him (and I wouldn't want to), so it needs to be diverted safely. He is incredibly trainable, yes - but all that potential will be wasted if I don't get it right, and to do that I need to try and understand what traits have been bred into him and work with them, not against.

That's why it's so helpful to hear from people who have had collies/kelpies before. Knowing what I do now, I wouldn't say they are novice dogs. I have some experience of dogs (we had one when I was growing up) but am not experienced. I am willing to learn all I can though to make DDog as happy as he can be.

My dog that died in April was lab x kelpie and she was wonderful , great with kids , only growled once in her whole life , everyone loved her. We have just got another one 8 weeks old same mix again.

It's interesting and I've noticed the difference between Archerpup (rough collie) and my bearded collie I had as a teen (back when the Romans were in .britain). Even as a young pup, my beardie showed herding instincts, the slow prowl walk when rounding something up, circling when running, the need to herd us all together and, now I realise, being really watchful and protective of us all. Beardies were bred to herd cattle so a low running gait and a very very fast turn of speed under all that hair. Archerpup is more of a glamorous princess. Active but no sign of any herding instinct apart from wanting to be with us and is clearly clever. Roughs haven't worked for years and possibly beardies now might be more showy than working - beardies were rare back in the early 80s and she could trace her line back to the first Scottish working stock. So so interesting. Good luck!

I'd focus on impulse control games and training, teaching a settle, and generally just reinforcing the 'off/relaxed' on cue as much as possible. Also if he's a bit reactive, recall and release drilled 50x every walk to make sure you have instant control of him and of course on-lead for safety when needed.

Also nosework to keep him mentally engaged

Thanks @Veterinari and @LostArcher. It is interesting, along with frustrating and hard work! 😂

We are doing well with teaching a settle, and he is great at sleeping in his crate for an hour every morning and afternoon. Forced naps are definitely necessary for him as he is such an ‘on’ dog.

@Veterinari, at the moment he does nice long-ish walks on a longline with me most days, and I do recall with him. He is still easily distracted, but in a few more weeks I’ll let him off.

The other days we take him to a secure field and he gets to burn off energy with frisbee/ his ball and my MIL’s dog (in our bubble!). Once a week he goes to a dog walker for a few hours and he goes out with her dog to learn some doggy manners. And snuffle mats, rope toy and brain games at home!

The impulse control comment is interesting. If you have any advice on what we should be doing I’d be grateful. When he is very reactive (in the car, for example), it feels like he is trying to control himself, but he just doesn’t have the level of self-control yet. He is only ten months old so perhaps just needs to learn more control with time.

Car crate coming tomorrow which I think will help. Grateful photo attached to keep you interested in my ramblings. 👌