Fatal Attack by a Staffordshire cross - trigger warning

[MabelMoo23]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9232029/Pictured-Woman-25-savaged-death-rescue-dog.html

I’m in the Midlands and this is local to me. For those who don’t want to read the link (it’s Daily Mail)

This poor poor woman. But also this poor dog as well. She found it dumped - a Staffordshire Cross - and rescued it and took it home to live with her. Who knows what kind of life had before he was dumped. I know the area of Birmingham where she lived and it’s not a a particularly nice area, in that I can well imagine that someone had it, treated it badly so it was aggressive and then dumped it.

She was asleep and the dog bit her arm, and died of her injuries at the house.

I can’t even begin to imagine the terror she must have felt when she woke up and she’d been attacked.

But this also serves as an example as to why rescues will not rehome to houses with young children, and why those people then shouldn’t try and get round those rules by adopting from abroad.

Any rescue, their background is totally unknown.

This poor woman. RIP

@Kishkashta I don’t have a staffie myself, but work in dog rescue and come across some absolutely sweet ones. However I do roll my eyes when people recommend them to families with young children.

But I really want people to realise the difference between actual staffies and the bully mixes that are responsible for most of the deaths.

“However I do roll my eyes when people recommend them to families with young children.”

To be fair, staffies are pretty good with kids because they’re up for pretty much anything, want to go for a walk, they’re happy to, want to play fetch for 3 hours, sure, want to cuddle up all afternoon, yep... lol and they’re very biddable so forgiving of training mistakes - they won’t stand there going, nope, last time we did this command you wanted this exact pose and that’s what I’m sticking with, they’ll just go, oh you want me to do stuff... fun... and they’re not so active that they’ll go self employed if you don’t give them a job.

And they’re really quite dinky so pretty easy to handle as well.

But then you’ve got larger dogs that look a bit similar that are bred by god knows who with all sorts of weird undesirable traits in there, and random mixes that don’t have any bull breeds in, but look like them and have their own not so desirable mix of traits...

And they’re all lumped together as staffies.

But ultimately, tarring breeds as dangerous is problematic because that makes many people think other breeds are safer... and they’re not.

I see a lot of cockapoos going into rescues with such serious resource guarding issues and bite history that I don’t see how they’re ever going to be rehomed - that isn’t because they’re cockapoos, it’s because people are breeding dogs with issues like that, that just shouldn’t ever be getting bred from.

Start overbreeding labs with temperament issues, sell them off cheaply and treat them how some people treat bull mixes and there’d soon be an issue with fatal attacks and labs.

@Allington

When the rescues have dozens of applications per dog, of course they will choose the least risky. And the younger the child the more risk, even in a dog that is used to children and never shown any signs of aggression.

DDog is from Portugal - her early history is unknown but we have had her for 6 months (she is now a year old) and she hasn't once shown any aggression. She did manage to escape once, because she out-smarted me in learning how to open the gate, not because I didn't think about fencing. That loophole is now closed.

I have met any number of dogs from overseas rescues on our walks, and all have been good with people and other dogs. The problem dogs I've come across are where people have fallen in love with a breed that is too active/strong/difficult to train but got a puppy anyway.

The reality is, some people are realistic about their situation and a dog's needs, and do the research/get help if they need it. And then there are those that don't. Where the dog comes from is a bit of a red herring.

Please don't assume your dog is therefore safe. I've got a scar on my forehead from being nipped by a previously "absolutely wonderful and calm" family dog when I was a child. It had been in the family five years, no obvious provocation, just decided it didn't like me.

@Ritasueandbobtoo9 "They need to have a gradual ban on these dogs"

Who are they? and what are 'these' dogs? Do you mean badly bred dogs or those that are seen as status animals and deliberately encouraged to be aggressive. There will never be checks on those as the scum that breed them will never have them microchipped or vaccinated or admit to owning, and every litter will be 'accidental'.

I have work in the community for a long time and seen how many of these dogs are cared for and known some of the people that care for them. Some owners use their dogs as protection, they train them to be aggressive to people for their protection. They need to blanket ban a wider range of breeds because people are being killed. Years ago it was okay to keep lions and tigers etc.. they got banned because they attacked and injured people.

Scares me the amount of people on mumsnet who will tear dog owners apart because they want to get rid of a dog that's bitten. "You need a behaviourist, you need a trainer, you need to do this and that." No. If a dog has bitten someone, actually bitten with no warning signs, it needs putting down. That's how you end up with extremely dangerous dogs like this one, by passing on dogs which are unpredictable and bite humans. There's no place in society for dogs which bite people.

Sorry not sorry but I think some breeds should be banned. I don't trust Staffies at all and wouldn't go near one. I agree, Rita.

This poor young woman was ripped apart in her own bed by can only be called a wild animal. Certainly wasn’t tame, it just keeps happening. Why is anyone allowing these things to happen? Where are the dog wardens? Why aren’t councils protecting people any more?

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

This poor young woman was ripped apart in her own bed by can only be called a wild animal. Certainly wasn’t tame, it just keeps happening. Why is anyone allowing these things to happen? Where are the dog wardens? Why aren’t councils protecting people any more?

Why are people continuing to be able to own these breeds and breed them, too? She's far from the last, that 9-year-old boy was mauled to death in a caravan a couple of years ago, a 4-year-old girl killed by a mastiff, a 14-year-old girl as well. It goes on and on.

We've got friends who have those bloody Staffies and I won't go to their homes or let my kids to go them. Don't trust them. They're pitbulls by another name. Ditto Rotties and other sorts. Nope.

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

This poor young woman was ripped apart in her own bed by can only be called a wild animal. Certainly wasn’t tame, it just keeps happening. Why is anyone allowing these things to happen? Where are the dog wardens? Why aren’t councils protecting people any more?

What’s your solution then? Dog wardens and Councils have no power here. It would be up to the government and what are they going to do? They already have banned 4 breeds. Ban every dog breed that you don’t like?

Dog licenses would be the best option but people would obtain dogs anyway and sadly it’s not feasible.

I 100% don’t believe these dogs should be allowed to be kept as pets—bullys, staffies, all fighter breeds with strong jaws that lock on.

I’ve seen a family member attacked by one—it was on lead (held by CHILDREN) and tried to attack our dog, then turned on my dad and it’s teeth went right through his arm. It held on and he was shaking his arm in the air for minutes while people screamed, I honestly thought it was going to kill someone.

Anyone who tries to compare this kind of lethal machine to “labradors actually bite a lot!” or “chihuahuas are grumpy!” is delusional. Just look at the death stats each year.

I think anyone who has one of these in a house around children should be done for child abuse. The vast majority of these deaths reported are dogs that were “super sweet, so kind!” until they put their teeth through little Amy’s throat and held on until she bled to death. Breeding them should be illegal.

@Onjnmoeiejducwoapy

I 100% don’t believe these dogs should be allowed to be kept as pets—bullys, staffies, all fighter breeds with strong jaws that lock on.

I’ve seen a family member attacked by one—it was on lead (held by CHILDREN) and tried to attack our dog, then turned on my dad and it’s teeth went right through his arm. It held on and he was shaking his arm in the air for minutes while people screamed, I honestly thought it was going to kill someone.

Anyone who tries to compare this kind of lethal machine to “labradors actually bite a lot!” or “chihuahuas are grumpy!” is delusional. Just look at the death stats each year.

I think anyone who has one of these in a house around children should be done for child abuse. The vast majority of these deaths reported are dogs that were “super sweet, so kind!” until they put their teeth through little Amy’s throat and held on until she bled to death. Breeding them should be illegal.

Ok, but please specify exactly what breeds you are going to ban because ‘locking jaws’ isn’t a physiological trait. And most of the statistics are crossbreed. So staffies crossed with Labradors etc

Staffies- yes ok so say we are going to ban them
American bulldogs- bull breed so yes?
British bulldog?
Old Tyme bulldog?
French bulldog? - still a bull breed
Bull mastiffs?
Neopolitan mastiffs?
Rottweilers?
Then Doberman’s?
Great Danes?

There is a huge difference between a Staffordshire bull terrier and an American bully. Huge.

And it is already illegal in this country to breed pitbulls (which are usually staffies crossed with mastiffs/labs/bully’s etc)

“all fighter breeds with strong jaws that lock on.”

No breeds have jaws that lock on...

“The vast majority of these deaths reported are dogs that were “super sweet, so kind!” “

Nope, the vast majority of dogs involved in fatal attacks have a history of aggression and previous attacks against people.

I’ve not RTFT (sorry normally do but I’m wiped and just respond to the initial op).

Not all rescues are strays and poorly treated. It should be noted that some come from wonderful living homes that are no longer able to look after them due to many reasons such as financial, new living accommodation, medical or even the owner passing away.

They will also have puppies born on site and often fostered, that can be rehomed to families but they don’t advertise them as they are snapped up super quick on the wait list.

Just adding this as a former Rehomer. It’s always worth registering, even if you don’t see anything.

But equally accept the rules at set for a reason. Accept that the rescue centres are doing what is best for the animal.

Local councils already have enforcement powers with regards to pavement fouling. It would fall under local council responsibility. Local councils used to have dog wardens, just have cut services until they pretty much don’t exist now.

@Costacoffeeplease
Still talking bollocks though

Just making my comments based on the fact we walked into a relatives house and jack russell (no history of any problems they'd had her since a pup well looked after) ran in and went for DS . Spent an afternoon in A and E having his face glued and scarred for life .

ANY DOG CAN TURN and if you don't know the history you could innocently do something to trigger it.

All 3 dog bites in our family came from 3 different Jack Russell’s

Would trust a Staffie over a JRT any day of the week, vicious little fuckers

We would love a dog, & would definitely consider one from a rescue. However almost all of the dogs in shelters near us seem only to have either greyhounds or staffies. We're in a tiny HA house & don't have room for a greyhound, & I'd be worried about a possibly highly strung, previously abused or neglected dog of a type that is not recommended for young families. Not bothered about a pedigree (in fact we'd rather not) so the usual recommendation of finding a KC breeder doesn't help.

DM are bull breed haters, the dog could be a spaniel with 2% sbt and it’ll be a devil dog to the DM
‘her arm was chewed off as she slept’ really?
The dog was a stray dog took in off the street not a rescue, huge difference and it’s unfair to actual rescues to lump them in with this situation as rescues assess and work with the dogs.
This is tragic but we do not know any details at all.
These threads always highlight the huge amount of ignorance on MN regards dogs.
‘could it be a fighting dog?’
dog on dog aggression is completely separate from dog on human aggression.

[quote A1b2c3d4e5f6g7]@XiCi

I don't think the comment was about the woman being attacked. That's awful. More about the sweeping statements on here that our rescue dogs are going to attack because we don't know their history[/quote]
Agree - I read it in the context of the specific things that had been said about her dog, not the news story where this thread began.

I'm a little concerned about this becoming a pile-on about revues and staffers. This dog was not a rescue dog, in the sense that it came from a rescue, pound or other organisation. It was a street dog. Also, it was not a staffie, it was a cross breed of bull-type appearance.

Poor woman. Whatever the trigger, the consequences are horrendous.

Personally, I don't understand why anybody would want a pet that has to have a risk assessment first. To determine whether their home environment is suitable. Presumably linked to safety concerns.

I also do not understand why it is widely accepted that greyhounds can be viewed in a stereotypical breed way, because it's their nature as a consequence of breeding, but other breeds are not.

Not all dogs are the same and the environment they have been raised in is hugely influential. But breeding had a purpose and that has a behavioural consequence.

Personally, I don't understand why anybody would want a pet that has to have a risk assessment first. To determine whether their home environment is suitable. Presumably linked to safety concerns.

If you are referring to the checks that rescue centres carry out, these are primarily to ensure the dog will be treated well by the new owners.

Generally Staffies, and most other dogs are very loyal. It is extremely rare for a well treated, well trained dog to attack.

There are an average of deaths per year by dog attacks, that compares to 2 women and 30 men a year murdered due to domestic violence. So you are far more likely to be murdered by your partner than killed by your dog.

“I also do not understand why it is widely accepted that greyhounds can be viewed in a stereotypical breed way, because it's their nature as a consequence of breeding, but other breeds are not.“

But behavioural traits are not inherited because a dog has a vague resemblance to a breed...

Just making my comments based on the fact we walked into a relatives house and jack russell (no history of any problems they'd had her since a pup well looked after) ran in and went for DS . Spent an afternoon in A and E having his face glued and scarred for life .

But he lived. Had this been a big dog, built for strength and killing, then I doubt you'd have the same attitude tbh.

Am sure the checks are to ensure the new owners treat the dog well. They are also to check if the home situation is suitable for the dog. So it goes both ways. Can the dog cope and is the home suitable.