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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

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Original poster

Dog snapped at DD

45 replies

despondentatwork · 06/02/2021 11:41

Background....We have 2 dogs. Collie is 5yo. She has snapped at the Vet in the past & at me & at our DS. She is quite a high anxiety, over active Collie. I've always been careful & wary of her TBH, especially around any children & I don't generally leave her with the children unsupervised. This morning I had just walked out of the room, when this happened. She had been sniffing around her bed cover which I had washed after bathing her last night. DD says she nudged her away from it (she didn't know what the bedcover was, she thought it was a coat of mine). The dog growled at DD, who immediately realised dog was unhappy. So she says she put her hand out for the dog to lick, and 'apologise' & the dog snapped at her hand. DD is devastated. She LOVES this dog; had been afraid of dogs when she was younger, but has a really close relationship with her. She was v v frightened & could hardly speak for sobbing. She keeps going over the incident & thinks she's done something wrong. I have explained that the dog probably found her actions threatening & she understands. I am very concerned. DD will be wary now, I have no doubt, but DS is younger & just doesn't have the understanding to be wary of the dog (or any dog, really). The dog snapped at him once, when he was lifting a toy from under her high bed to play with her. We think the dog thought he was taking the toy away. We have explained about toys, food bowl etc. But I am really concerned that there may be other objects she 'guards', or situations the children will not be aware are sensitive to the dog. We have lots of neices & nephews who come to play. With the best will in the world, I hold my hands up & say that I can't supervise all of them & the dog all of the time. I don't think it's a risk I want to take-I am very worried that someday the dog will bite. Any advice/input from anyone who's been in this position??

OP posts:

NuniaBeeswax · 07/02/2021 12:53

Oops I think I misread what that poster said; I I thought they meant the dog had snapped without warning. Sorry PP!

TwelvePaws · 07/02/2021 13:05

have involved a trainer before, mostly regarding her car fixation & lead walking, but again finding the time to practice practice practice enough for behaviour improvement is my issue.

I would get help again and find the time to that your dog needs. I’m presuming you researched the breed before you got her.

Opalfruits2 · 07/02/2021 13:14

It might be making her more over excited to see you because she’s been outside away from you for a period in the day too. It might sound naive (I am 14 weeks and not even a mum yet! ) but can you get a tall baby gate and keep her in the kitchen so you can guarantee no unsupervised contact with your DCs? As a fellow border collie owner I’m deeply worried about how ours will be when baby arrives in august. My plan was to go with the baby gate so she can still be fussed in passing and hear what’s going on, they’re such attentive dogs aren’t they.

But I would never trust her in the first place with baby, she’s just never been around them or children and when she’s seen any before she’s a bit TOO interested as they are unpredictable to her. Like a sheep to be rounded up.

As yours has gone for DCs I think you have done the right thing in separation, but I would feel the same about her being outside. Hopefully you can find a happy medium

Opalfruits2 · 07/02/2021 13:24

OP I’ve just realised how useless my suggestion of a gate might be, since your DCs are older. There were ones I saw online which are over 1m tall

SirenSays · 07/02/2021 13:40

Just wanted to add, never try to train the growl out of a dog. You need that warning. Teach the children about dog behaviour and how to read body language.

sunflowersandbuttercups · 07/02/2021 13:44

@SirenSays

Just wanted to add, never try to train the growl out of a dog. You need that warning. Teach the children about dog behaviour and how to read body language.

Yes! I'm so glad someone has said this.

Growling is such an important way for a dog to communicate - you should never, EVER tell your dog off for growling. If they learn that growling = punishment, they'll just go straight to a snap or bite.

That warning sign can be the difference between your child being bitten or not.

Honeyhoops · 07/02/2021 14:40

@Opalfruits2

I actually wouldn't exclude your dog by keeping her separate in the kitchen. You need to introduce her to the baby as soon as possible and make a fuss of her. Obviously never leave your baby unattended with her but by keeping her away she may see the baby as pushing her out and become jealous. You want her to bond with the baby so she feels protective towards it.

My collie was 7 when I had my first dd and hadn't really spent any time with children but they formed an amazing bond and I had no issues at all.

Opalfruits2 · 07/02/2021 14:56

Really! This is what my DP has been saying like she’ll instinctively be protective no problems, and I’ve always been too worried about it so I haven’t even entertained the idea.

What you said does make sense thank you Honeyhoops I don’t want it to be me creating/perpetuating a problem from the start

MrsAntiSocial · 07/02/2021 15:02

Really! This is what my DP has been saying like she’ll instinctively be protective no problems, and I’ve always been too worried about it so I haven’t even entertained the idea
Mine had never seen a baby when I had my DD, I was like you and really nervous but my DH was like your DH.
We let her say hello to baby DD in her babyseat and she just loved her.
She loves all babies.
Id still be cautious, id counter condition her to a baby sounds tape before baby is here, I’ve heard some trainers suggest dolls etc but ultimately I agree with honey, I think separating may make her pushed out and jealous.

Conundrumofsorts · 07/02/2021 15:07

First thing should be a vet check if you haven’t already to check for pain. I have been fostering a spaniel who was relinquished for snapping and he had been in terrible pain for months.

Then go down the routes for behaviour and stimulation.

Hyppogriff · 07/02/2021 15:25

I really think you should try to rehome your dog. It’s simply not fair to put the dog in that situation and of course dangerous for your child. You should NEVER leave it alone with your child not just ‘generally’ never do so. Sorry but it only takes a careless couple of minutes.

GrassWasGreener · 07/02/2021 15:36

we have 2 dogs and when the baby started to move around we got a play pen and instead of placing the child in it we put the dogs beds in it. That way they can't be harassed, there can't be any accidents and they have a safe place to go. I am not constantly watching and trying to avoid an accident. The dogs are happy and even though they were never unhappy with baby presence they are visibly more relaxed in their pen.
Both dogs were crate trained as puppies so they understand the concept. It works if i have visitors too, the dogs can be told to go into their beds and the gate closed on the pen and all is well. When toddler is sleeping or eating or we are not home and at night the gate is open and they come and go as they please. It works very well and everyone is safe. One of ours is a collie cross and if the toddler comes to the side of the pen and she wants too she just scoots away from the edge a bit. We didn't change anything other than add the pen. it was baby dan pen and we screwed the ends to the wall and left the rest of pen around the beds and dogs toys so they have plenty of room

GrassWasGreener · 07/02/2021 15:40

should also add, the pen is in the main living space so the dogs have not been shut out or away or feel pushed out, they are still with us just in their own safe space and the child is safe

Happenchance · 07/02/2021 16:16

You want her to bond with the baby so she feels protective towards it.

Why would you want a dog to be protective of a child? There will be many more occasions when a dog could become unnecessarily protective of a child because it interprets a situation as threatening (e.g., family members, friends or strangers bending down to talk to the baby/child, the child arguing with another child, someone telling the child off) than occasions when a child actually needs protecting by a dog.

Honeyhoops · 07/02/2021 18:21

@Happenchance

I maybe worded that wrong. I don't mean protective as in guarding the baby and then possibly showing aggression towards anyone picking it up etc. More that it sees the baby as part of it's "pack" and not something to be jealous or nervous of.

We did the same as @MrsAntiSocial, introduced our dog to dd in her car seat then he was just always in the room with me as usual with my dd. If I left the room either dd or my dog came with me, until she was older.

Merename · 07/02/2021 18:29

Wow I’m not a dog owner so don’t have the same attachment but no way would this dog be able to live with us, I’d be so anxious.

CherryRoulade · 07/02/2021 18:31

I wouldn't allow a dog that has bitten in the house with children, in fact, any unprovoked attack would result in them being destroyed, if they were mine. As it wasn't unprovoked and as you don't have the skills and time to retrain it, I would suggest rehoming.
Collies are beautiful, particularly when out rounding sheep. Lovely to watch them working as they are meant to work. They aren't breeds that are best as sofa dogs, or left outside until someone decides to give them attention.
Your wariness won't help. Dogs need to be confident and respectful that their owner is in charge.
A collie is sufficiently big to do real harm if it bites; it has bitten repeatedly. It needs rehoming where there is an experienced handler and no children or PTS.

Original poster

despondentatwork · 09/02/2021 17:04

Cherry, my dog has never bitten...

OP posts:

Original poster

despondentatwork · 09/02/2021 17:08

Can I ask for snuffle mat recommendations? She's not very food driven, but it could be a good 'enrichment' activity to try. We do use Kongs & various other food games: she's very smart & quickly figures them out. Also, she'll use the Kong as bouncy ball quite quickly. She'll bounce it up down repeatedly, catching & dropping.

OP posts:

PollyRoulson · 09/02/2021 17:16

My collies will not touch kongs (way beneath them - why should they have to grovel for their food! Get them traiing though and the food is wayyyy more interesting)

However scatter feeding they will do.

Any snuffle mat will do, even a thick pile bathroom mat may work. (but your collie may work it out very quickly and it not make a lot of difference to them tbh). I have one that just picks it up by the corner and shakes the food out, another than can hoover it up in about 30 secs

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