Pets4Homes deposit scheme - is it safe?

[Kahid87445]

After many had been scammed during the pandemic last year, Pets4Homes introduced a Deposit Scheme to make buying a puppy (or other animals) more safely and to avoid people being scammed.

How does the scheme work?

Is a video call sufficient proof to see if a puppy is real?

Is one supposed to ask the breeder for his/her address and other details?

If someone needs to pay a £350 deposit and then a video call takes place and both agree to release the deposit, what is stopping a breeder from simply stopping to contact the buyer after he/she has accepted to release the deposit money?

Does Pets4Homes carry out safety checks to verify a breeder's ID before the money has been released into his/her bank account?

Has anyone used the scheme?

The scheme is mandatory for anyone wanting to sell puppies. I must state that I haven't read any stories of people being scammed since the introduction of the scheme.

Thanks everyone!

Pets4homes is a terrible site full stop.

Rife with puppy farmers.

Avoid avoid avoid

@Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady

Whilst it's true that before the deposit scheme was introduced it was easier for people to advertise and sell puppies on the website, since the introduction of the deposit scheme I haven't read any cases of people being scammed. A breeder needs to verify his/her ID and the deposit scheme is compulsory when selling puppies. The deposit doesn't get released until both parties agree.

However, there were and are still plenty of decent reputable breeders who sell their advertise and sell their puppies on the site. I know plenty of people who bought their dogs off the website and have never had any problems.

Deposit scheme or not, please don't buy a puppy from Pets4Homes

Just because people haven't had problems, doesn't mean the breeders are in any way reputable. Lots of "puppy farmed" dogs end up being perfectly healthy and good pets, but that doesn't mean it's an industry you should be supporting.

Champdogs is a good website for buying a breeder.

I’ve been wondering the same as you OP, unfortunately this is going exactly as predicted and I suspect we will never know the answer.

The reality is, most dog breeders, whether they are Kennel Club, Kennel Club assured, commercial or home/hobby and irrespective of where they are advertising don’t do things ‘properly’, whether that’s more minor things like not health testing or outright abuse with crates of dirty bitches.

While a lot of the litters advertised on P4H have not been bred ‘properly’, there are some very good, very reputable breeders that advertise on Pets4homes.

Same as the kennel Club find a puppy service, not all of those breeders will be good breeders.

Ditto for breed club breeders

I'm not sure why people think that buying a puppy from Champdogs is necessarily better.

Yes, it is true, that there are 'some' people who advertise dodgy puppies on Pets4Homes, but it is only a small percentage of people and not respective of the vast majority of people who sell puppies on the website.

Since the pandemic the people who run Pets4Homes have introduced a few things which make the site a lot more safer and there are more safety cautions these days.

The deposit scheme allows a buyer and a seller to agree on things together before the deposit money is transferred to the seller's bank account.

I'm not sure why people give Pets4Homes such a bad name because of a small minority of people who use the website to advertise puppies from puppy farms, etc.

There have been just as many cases of dodgy sellers on eBay, are we all supposed to stop using eBay because of a small minority of people who use the website to sell dodgy items? Of course not.

If someone is naively going to send money (either a deposit or the amount a puppy costs) to a seller before ever seeing the puppy on a video call, in person, the documents related to the puppy, then IMO that is his/her fault and not the fault of the website.

As long as one is wise enough to do the right research and safety precautions when buying a puppy, I don't really see how or why he/she could be scammed.

@MrsAntiSocial

Exactly.

There are plenty of sellers on Pets4Homes who are selling puppies which are KC registered.

I don't see why using the KC website makes the sale of a puppy anymore safer than Pets4Homes.

But the deposit scheme doesn't stop you buying from a puppy farm or a dodgy backyard breeder. It just protects your money.

I completely disagree with you that it's only a small minority of the adverts that are from puppy farms - I would say the vast majority of adverts on there are from puppy farms or backyard breeders.

Lots of puppy farms are licensed by the government. Think Raffle's cockapoos, Kelly's Kennels etc. They all look clean and perfectly respectable places. They pay tax, take your money correctly and provide you with puppy insurance etc.

Doesn't stop them being dodgy as fuck and places you should avoid, though

I'm not sure why people think that buying a puppy from Champdogs is necessarily better
I’m not sure either.
Like the Kennel Club (and everywhere else) there isn’t actually a requirement for breeders to health test nor have proven show wins nor proven working ability.
So I’m a bit of a loss aswell.

Yes, it is true, that there are 'some' people who advertise dodgy puppies on Pets4Homes, but it is only a small percentage of people and not respective of the vast majority of people who sell puppies on the website
I think the percentage of what people think of as ‘puppy farm’ - huge numbers of bitches and/or overbred or sold after a few years is very low.
Far lower than Mumsnet would have you believe.

However, imo, there is a huge percentage of home bred puppies on there that haven’t been victims of abuse at all but the owners/breeders haven’t done things ‘right’ either eg they haven’t paid for their council licence (now a legal requirement for any litter sold for money), they haven’t paid for the specialised health tests required for their breed, they haven’t checked properly the new homes etc

I'm not sure why people give Pets4Homes such a bad name because of a small minority of people who use the website to advertise puppies from puppy farms, etc.

There have been just as many cases of dodgy sellers on eBay, are we all supposed to stop using eBay because of a small minority of people who use the website to sell dodgy items? Of course not
I agree.
There have also been a shocking amount of abuse cases uncovered against award winning, Crufts titled Kennel Club breeders over the years.
No one cries to avoid KC breeders though.

If someone is naively going to send money (either a deposit or the amount a puppy costs) to a seller before ever seeing the puppy on a video call, in person, the documents related to the puppy, then IMO that is his/her fault and not the fault of the website
I agree

As long as one is wise enough to do the right research and safety precautions when buying a puppy, I don't really see how or why he/she could be scammed
Scammers can be very, very clever and convincing tbf.

There are plenty of sellers on Pets4Homes who are selling puppies which are KC registered
The Kennel Club is just a registry.
They are held up as a sign of quality but they aren’t always.

I don't see why using the KC website makes the sale of a puppy anymore safer than Pets4Homes
It doesn’t and actually, when I looked a few weeks ago one of the litters advertised on the Kennel Club find a puppy and noted to be an ‘assured’ breeder was also listed on pets4homes.
This breeder had health tested aswell and doesn’t have many dogs (I checked their website).

@sunflowersandbuttercups

Do you have any sources that the "majority" are from puppy farms? I can only find selected cases of people going to various newspapers and reporting their unfortunate experiences of being scammed.

I searched on Google "Raffle's cockapoos" and the owners aren't even selling anymore puppies at the moment, so what the hell are you on about exactly?

@MrsAntiSocial

I agree with you that scammers can be very, very convincing, but eventually something he/she says or does will normally catch him/her out. It's similar to a manipulative partner... eventually the cracks begin to show and he/she is exposed for what/she is deep down.

I think that some people think that because puppies are KC registered then the puppies are going to automatically be the best of the best. That is not the case at all.

I have also seen breeders advertise their litters on both Pets4Homes and the Kennel Club website.

With the new verifications, restrictions and security on Pets4Homes, I really don't see why anyone should still be able to be scammed. Someone can only place one deposit on one litter at a time and the deposit doesn't automatically go to the breeder.

Even with the restrictions in place now, someone only has to ask to video call the breeder and see the mother with her puppies, see how the puppies are being treated by the breeder, etc.

One thing that is almost guaranteed and it's in no way related to where people have bought their puppies from, but in the not too distant future there will be lots and lots of puppies and dogs being put up for adoption.

Too many people are buying puppies impulsively at the moment and not realising the real commitments and responsibilities a puppy comes with for many years. The prices of puppies at the moment are soaring because of that precise reason.

[quote Kahid87445]@sunflowersandbuttercups

Do you have any sources that the "majority" are from puppy farms? I can only find selected cases of people going to various newspapers and reporting their unfortunate experiences of being scammed.

I searched on Google "Raffle's cockapoos" and the owners aren't even selling anymore puppies at the moment, so what the hell are you on about exactly?[/quote]
I don't have any sources - but neither do you when you say the majority of sales are legitimate. It's just different opinions.

Personally, I would never buy a living animal off a website - I don't believe it's the right way to go about getting a pet. You clearly disagree, so we're coming at this from totally different angles to start off with, so we're never going to agree on the morality/legitimacy of Pets4Homes to begin with.

I also don't know why you keep mentioning scams, either. Scam to me implies people are paying money for animals that don't exist, and that's a totally separate problem to that of puppy farms. The deposit scheme may protect you in the event of a scam, but it doesn't weed out the existence of puppy farms and dodgy backyard breeders.

Also, just because Raffle's aren't selling at the moment, doesn't mean they're not a puppy farm The fact that they breed, at minimum, three separate crossbreeds tells me that they are. Even puppy farms are allowed to take a break from what they do - it doesn't make them any less dodgy.

@sunflowersandbuttercups

No, it is not a matter of having different opinions. Compare how many people successfully buy a puppy or dog from Pets4Homes to how many people have unfortunately been scammed. I'm sure you will find out that the latter is a tiny minority of people. A story pops up every now and then in a newspaper, that is all. It's certainly not on a big scale or every one in five sales, etc.

Of course someone buying a puppy which is being listed as being microchipped, KC registered, etc, but the puppy is in fact from a puppy farm is being scammed.

There are cases of people IMO being silly and sending money to a puppy that never even existed. Why would anyone send money for something he/she has never seen before?

Puppy farms are always breeding, constantly breeding the same mother, etc. I didn't even bother to look up the other names you mentioned, but I fail to see how what you're describing is defined as a 'puppy farm'.

Puppies from puppy farms are usually in disgusting states, the 'breeders' (I don't use that word to describe such vile people), better described as 'arseholes', breed a dog and don't care about the dog or the puppies and are just in it for the money.

Raffles cockapoos aren’t selling puppies at the moment because the council downgraded their breeding licence.

Prior to this they were pumping out c.250 litters a year! Not lovingly bred with mum in a family home, puppy farming.

@Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady

Pets4homes is a terrible site full stop.

Rife with puppy farmers.

Avoid avoid avoid

I advertise there. It doesn't make me a puppy/cat farmer. People buying animals need to have some common sense and do their research.

No, it is not a matter of having different opinions. Compare how many people successfully buy a puppy or dog from Pets4Homes to how many people have unfortunately been scammed. I'm sure you will find out that the latter is a tiny minority of people. A story pops up every now and then in a newspaper, that is all. It's certainly not on a big scale or every one in five sales, etc.

But just because it's a successful sale, doesn't mean it's not from a puppy farm. Lots of people are happy with their puppy farm dogs - doesn't mean it's not dodgy

Of course someone buying a puppy which is being listed as being microchipped, KC registered, etc, but the puppy is in fact from a puppy farm is being scammed.

Lots of puppy farm puppies are KC registered and microchipped, though. Again, just because a puppy comes with all the paperwork, doesn't mean it's not dodgy.

There are cases of people IMO being silly and sending money to a puppy that never even existed. Why would anyone send money for something he/she has never seen before?

I agree, that is silly.

Puppy farms are always breeding, constantly breeding the same mother, etc. I didn't even bother to look up the other names you mentioned, but I fail to see how what you're describing is defined as a 'puppy farm'.

But that's simply not true. Lots of puppy farms are simply licensed to have numerous bitches, so once a bitch has had the KC limit of litters, it's sold/gotten rid of, and a new bitch is introduced in its place. Puppy farms aren't always bitches kept in dingy sheds for years on end.

Puppies from puppy farms are usually in disgusting states, the 'breeders' (I don't use that word to describe such vile people), better described as 'arseholes', breed a dog and don't care about the dog or the puppies and are just in it for the money.

Again, we clearly have very different definitions of what a puppy farm is, so we're not going to agree here.

@cheerfulpanda

Raffles cockapoos aren’t selling puppies at the moment because the council downgraded their breeding licence.

Prior to this they were pumping out c.250 litters a year! Not lovingly bred with mum in a family home, puppy farming.

That's interesting that their license was downgraded! I'm glad. Hopefully the same happens to other "legitimate breeders".

When we bought our previous puppy (as opposed to the current domestic demon), we looked on both ChampDogs and Pets4Homes and found possible litters on both. I didn't like the look of any of the ChampDogs ones (from memory, 2 had insanely high coefficients of inbreeding - it blows my mind that people will health test dogs and then breed a litter with a COI of 20% - and one was from non-working parents) but we went and had a look at a Pets4Home litter.

We did our due diligence: checked out records of sire and dam, checked COI (low), chatted at length to the breeder. We visited twice. He home-checked us ( and there was no doubt in my mind that he'd have turned us down if he hadn't liked what he saw).

The puppy we ended up with is a bloody good dog (this is not just my opinion, it's the opinion of people who train, work and trial gundogs).

You have to do your research wherever you buy from. And we didn't 'buy a dog off the internet': we responded to an advert and saw her in the whelping box with her dam and litter mates. Some absolutely excellent litters are advertised online, and a lot of good ones.

Sorry, OP, not answering your question, but I do get tired of the attitude that dictates that internet puppy adverts are always a terribly bad thing. They can be. But not always.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

Champdogs seems to be mainly catered for people who want to show dogs. I think most people are satisfied with KC papers.

I know plenty of people who have bought KC registered puppies off Pets4Homes and none of them have had any problems as far as I know.

@sunflowersandbuttercups

No, it does not. But, a puppy from a puppy farm generally will look different to a puppy from a reputable breeder.

A puppy farm is defined as "an intensive dog breeding facility that is operated under inadequate conditions that fail to meet the dogs’ behavioural, social and/or physiological needs".

Puppy farms are normally carried out on a large scale. A breeder who breeds more regularly than others is not necessarily running a puppy farm, typically he/she will just be doing it unfortunately for the money.

The sooner Pets4homes is shut down for good the better.
No one who actually cared about their animals would advertise to strangers over the internet.
Rescue or contact the breed club.

@Wolfiefan

One uses the internet to contact sellers on the Kennel Club and Champdogs websites.

What are you on about exactly?

Perhaps you don't understand how buying a puppy or dog from Pets4Homes works.

The sooner Pets4homes is shut down for good the better
No one who actually cared about their animals would advertise to strangers over the internet
Rescue or contact the breed club
Bollocks!
It’s a selling platform.
No different to the Kennel Club find a puppy or Champdogs or the puppy lists within the breed club.

Of course it’s different to breed clubs. They don’t list every puppy available. They only lost those whose parents have had the proper health tests for the breed. And if the club is any good at all they won’t list any breeder who doesn’t offer support and choose homes carefully.
Websites like pets4homes are simply about money. Not about health or welfare or anything good.