Was I in the wrong here?

[J371172]

Hi, I was convinced I was right but now I’m not so sure.

I took my WCS to the beach this morning and let her off lead to chase her ball.
My dog is not perfect, but she recalls well and is only interested in her ball when on the beach. She does occasionally chase seagulls but ignores other dogs.
Today a dog, bigger than mine, came bounding over. Usually my dogs runs away from them in big circles around me with her tail between her legs until they get the message and leave her.
The dog today wasn’t leaving, it chased her and chased her with it’s mouth open looking like it wanted to bite her backside. I tried to get between them and tried to shoo it away. I then tried pushing it away but it just wouldn’t leave. My dog was getting more stressed and barked at it a couple of times. I tried to push it with my ball thrower and I did lightly hit a couple of times with the ball thrower, really lightly honestly.
At this point the owners came racing over ranting and swearing at me to not dare touch their dog. I tried to calmly explain that my dog didn’t want to play and that they should keep it near them and not let it continually go at another dog when it was clear from my trying to get between them that we weren’t happy.

They said it wasn’t trying to bite her and it’s only a puppy (so is mine). I ended up just walking away and came home leaving them shouting obscenities and calling me every name they could think of.
I get that I shouldn’t have used my ball thrower to try to get their dog away but to be honest, I didn’t not want their dog to bite mine, but I also didn’t want mine to react and bite theirs (not that she has ever bitten before but you never know).

P.S as I walked away their dog went to bother another dog and then the ranty owners put it on it’s lead (about time)!

I think you were probably both in the wrong. Puppies without perfect recall should be on a lead when other dogs are around. I know it's hard in the heat of the moment but you shouldn't have used your ball thrower to push a dog. However they should not have lost control of their dog.

I don’t think you we’re in the wrong at all.
I’d have thwacked it hard never mind pushed it gently if it wouldn’t leave.
I have kicked a dog before and went to hit it when the little bastard thought about coming back for another go.
And yes, that owner also went mental at me.
I honestly don’t and didn’t care.
She claimed they were ‘only playing’.
I now have a dog that can’t really be trusted to interact nicely with other dogs.
Unless they are super small (so unthreatening)
Or introduced in the house.

I think you were both a bit U but as an owner who's dog was recently attacked Iw would have done the same except I'd have put my dog on a lead and tried to walk away first.

I don't think you were in the wrong at all.

You felt in danger. You were entitled to do whatever it took to get the dog away from you.

I have done the same as you. My dog behaves very much like yours. It's not keen on other dogs because it's been mugged/bullied by other dogs numerous times now.

So he avoids as best he can. Has never snapped.

I've had to get in between other dogs and him and have risked been bitten by the other dog. It's awful.

I have tried putting him on a lead when I see a dog approaching. The problem there is he is even more nervous as he has. I way of escaping and he has actually been full on attacked twice now when on his lead.

So no. I don't think you did anything wrong. At all.

No I don't think you did anything wrong, the other dog was out of control and your response was proportionate given that both you and your dog were intimidated by its behaviour.

What I do in this situation is to walk quickly away in the direction opposite of the owners (if they are in proximity) and call my dogs name. I find that if people see their dog leaving and getting further away from them they tend to panic and come and get their dog ASAP.

When I can't see the owners and the dog is being aggressive to mine I put myself in between and get really forceful telling the dog to get off and make myself look bloody scary. That has worked in the past.

I really hate it when other owners want to use your dog as a playmate when mine doesn't want to know when he is with me as he just wants to play with his ball (also a WCS).

You smacked another person's dog just for hanging around? Of course YABU. Maybe the owners were too far to see that it was a light smack, and maybe they're not the type of people who use hitting as a mean of punishment.
The dog wasn't violent. You were.

You obviously panicked a bit - I probably wouldn't have hit it with the ball thrower - but their dog was out of control. So legally you were absolutely in the right.

As a pp said, I walk away fast in the other direction and my dog will follow. I also shout 'call your dog away'. If they say 'oh he's friendly' I just repeat 'call your dog away'.

I've found you have to be quite firm with crappy dog owners and it doesn't make me that popular but I don't care (my dog was being bothered by a pair of much bigger dogs a few years ago and it got out of control very quickly and he nearly lost an eye so I no longer tolerate badly behaved dogs or owners).

I’m going to be honest but your dogs reaction to the other dog might be fear but it’s also sounds a lot like zoomies too, even with the barking. It’s hard to say without seeing it and judging hackles etc and hearing the bark.

Did you walk away at all? If so did she run straight rather than circles to you at all?

@OnceIWasAnApe yes I did, their dog wasn’t just hanging around it was chasing my dog and looked like it was trying to bite her backside. The owners were far away and were shouting their dog who was totally ignoring them. I had tried to shoo it away and it was also ignoring me.
My dog barked in warning a couple of times as she was getting stressed. I shouldn’t have used the ball thrower but was concerned that their dog would bite mine or mine would bite theirs. My dog didn’t come off her longline until I knew she’d come when I called her.
What would you have done?

I think I did just panic. I’m not sure I walked away at all (stupid)! I guess I was kind of waiting for the owners to get to us to take their dog. My dog was trying to get away and her tail was between her legs. No hackles up though. She kept trying to get back to me but the dog kept chasing her round again. If it happens again I will defo do the fast walk away thing so thanks for that advice.

What I do in this situation is to walk quickly away in the direction opposite of the owners (if they are in proximity) and call my dogs name. I find that if people see their dog leaving and getting further away from them they tend to panic and come and get their dog ASAP
I do this too.

When I can't see the owners and the dog is being aggressive to mine I put myself in between and get really forceful telling the dog to get off and make myself look bloody scary. That has worked in the past
I think, and I don’t mean this offensively, you have to be a certain sort of person for this to work.
Take my DH, he’s a nice man but he has quite an intimidating, confident air about him.
A lot of people who don’t know him are apprehensive.
I have no doubt that any dog would back down if he went to intimidate them.
I on the other hand, am not particularly confident and not in any way scary.
I always try to get away.

My dog is getting on now and I have reached the point now where I have lost all patience with dogs and their owners.
Twice recently I have had two dogs come at my dog.
One not aggressively but very big and bouncy which will terrify my dog and cause her to react aggressively.
The other I couldn’t be sure of it’s intentions.
It was locked on staring my dog in the eyes stalking my dog slowly but being a collie I wasn’t sure if it was inappropriate herding or actually intended to hurt her.
I did get in front of mine, Stare the dogs down, forcefully tell them to get away etc and they gave no fucks!
They can tell I’m not really that sort of person I think!

I already do everything I can to keep mine away from other dogs and have decided to buy a body camera, try and counter condition mine to the spray sound and start carrying pet corrector and spray any dog that doesn’t bog off now.

If that doesn’t work I’ll probably start carrying a stick, to block, but if necessary I will hit and risk the repercussions.

Nope, you weren't wrong. I'd have tried to use it as a barrier but it sounds like it's been going on for a while by the time the owner turned up. Other dog 'being just a puppy' is exactly the reason the owner should have been there to intervene earlier.

It's not like you used a taser op... Try and forget about it..

Some dogs do zoomies with their tail between their legs. But as she was trying to get back to you, it was probably fear.

As PP said, next time walk away, calling your dog.

I don’t think you were right to hit the dog but it sounds like panic and being overwhelmed by the situation you didn’t know what to do. All you can do is arm yourself with tactics if it happens again.

My dog was trying to get away and her tail was between her legs. No hackles up though. She kept trying to get back to me but the dog kept chasing her round again
Exactly how my dog was in the incident where I ended up kicking the dog.
They were trying to bite her legs and tail.
‘Only playing’ apparently.

"She kept trying to get back to me but the dog kept chasing her round again."

That absolutely seals it for me, the loose dog was not acting socially or 'just playing' and you did right by your dog in advocating for her safety. People will dislike you for it and you have to grow a thick skin, unfortunately.

Similarly to the poster above I have lost patience with owners of dogs like this, their behaviour is how nervous and reactive dogs are made, how elderly, unwell or just plain uninterested dogs are bullied or left in pain and in the worst case scenario dogs are injured or even killed. "Don't worry he's friendly!" from people who have no understanding of dog behaviour can do so much harm.

I wouldn’t have hit the other dog , even lightly , but aside from that you did nothing wrong . My dog doesn’t play with other dogs and can get a bit cross if they harass him when he’s trying to play ball so what I do in the circumstances you describe is get my dog into a sit or down , pick the ball up and then just wait for the other dog to get the message or the owner to take them away . Last week I did the above repeatedly with the same dog over a 10/15 minute period and it’s owner kept calling it back and then letting it come back to me again until they got the message and put it on a lead . It totally pisses me off when people just let their dogs run amok and expect other peoples dog to entertain and exercise them by playing with them .

I think you were right ... you didn’t want your dog to be bitten! I have a rescue GSD who’s terrified of other dogs. Her way of reacting is to bark like a hellhound if a dog comes too close. She’s been attacked by two small dogs... the first one she cowered on the ground. Now she makes herself look big and scary. I’d have no hesitation in smacking a dog away... otherwise she might have a go instead.

From what I've read on here and a lot of social media posts - lots of people think that if both dogs are off-lead, they're friendly and happy to play.

I mean, from your description, the other dog wasn't aggressive, just trying to play but just didn't understand your dogs' body language. Not ideal, but not a dangerous situation either.

I think the best solution in future is to walk away and call your dog to follow you. The other dog will either lose interest, or the owners will panic and come and get them. I don't think you necessarily did the wrong thing using the ball-thrower, but I wouldn't want the other owners to accuse me of hurting their dog - especially in the age of social media. I'd be worried they'd put something on Facebook!

Hope you and your dog are both okay.

I don’t think you are in the wrong at all and I would try and forget about it.

However, as someone who trains a lot of dogs...dogs obsessing over balls and running allover the place are triggering for lots of dogs and you probably will end up with unwanted visitors. It can also trigger the prey drive and herding instinct of other dogs seeing a dog running past them repeatedly.

Sometimes people throw balls right up to my dogs and the sight of a dog running so close and then leaving does drive even mine who are obedience gold level trained a bit mad.

I’m not saying don’t throw a ball but I would just be mindful of how much the dogs around you are paying attention and under control because it’s probably just tipped the other puppy over the edge a bit

I don't think you were wrong at all. The other people should have recalled their dog. Yes your dog was off leash playing but what if she had something wrong with her. I say this as i told a man off tonight. My dog was on leash and his dog ran over to mine. The other owners were at fault.

Honestly, I would be livid if someone hit my dog.

Everything else I I think was reasonable but hitting, absolutely not.