Dry food recommendations please

[AliBingo]

Hi

We are getting a spaniel puppy in a month's time, and she will be on Gelert working dog puppy food when she arrives.

I haven't had a dog for six years, our previous spaniels were in James Wellbeloved and Burns as these seemed to be recommended as fairly decent back then, but I was wondering if you could all recommend some good food please? Are there any other candidates? Royal Canin perhaps?

Obviously I will change her diet very gradually but I wanted to start thinking about this now so I have time to research all the options.

Thanks for any comments and advice!

I’ve recently got a puppy and found the website www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk really useful. It scores each dog food on how nutritious they are, and you can filter by price, type (dry/wet/raw), etc. We settled on AVA but my dog is a different breed (French Bulldog).

I feed our dogs on Skinner's Field and Trial - it's a mid-range working dog food and they have all done very well on it. As a poster on another current thread has pointed out, provided the dog is getting 100% RDA of everything, you should be okay.

That website is good. Personally I don’t have good experience with Royal Canin. Remember to switch slowly too!

There are an awful lot of pitfalls with judging a dog food by its ingredients list (which is what dog food comparison websites do) this article explains it better than I could. It was written by three Professors of Veterinary Medicine who are all Board qualified Pet Nutritionists:

vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2016/06/why-you-shouldnt-judge-a-pet-food-by-its-ingredient-list/

There has been a spate of newer, well thought of dog food companies who have lost lawsuits over falsifying ingredients lists so that they are more appealing to owners and so that they are ranked higher on dog food comparison websites.

There is also growing concern about grain free dog foods causing or greatly increasing the risk of heart disease. The FDA opened an investigation in 2019, and is still investigating, whether grain free dog foods either cause, or increase the risk of heart disease, Canine Dilated Cardiomyopathy.
For the FDA to actually do something, let alone open an investigation and still be investigating is really saying something too.

Through fostering I have seen so many people peer pressured into buying expensive, lightly toasted by the beating of Pegasus` own wings McFabulous trendy food, and then not be able to afford insurance, or a proper flea and worm schedule, or even proper vet treatment.

If you can be sure it provides 100% of their RDA of vitamins, minerals and nutrients for their correct size/breed/life stage, if your vet* (provided you trust them) is happy with you dogs health on it and if you can afford it and you are content with it, thats all you really need.

*Obviously if your vet tries to upsell more than a cartoon used car salesmen, get a second opinion, and change vets. You need a vet you can trust to be impartial, and to have your dog`s best interests at heart.

Far too often dog food ingredients lists are made to look appealing to the owners, regardless of whether they are actually better for the dog or not. What sounds disgusting to us can be fantastically nutritious for dogs, offal for one, which comes under the banner of animal derived/animal by products.

PolePup gets Purina Puppy, it suits him very well. PoleDog (my giant breed working dog) gets the dreaded Pedigree Chum chicken as it is the only dog food he will actually after trying everything else under the sun. Every dog will be different

i never thought i would say this but i really recommend raw food. I can't tell you how much it's improved my dogs health, teeth, poos....
Naked food
Ror
Colfords
There are so many and it's really easy!

I should also have added that I have nothing personally against any kind of dog food, except grain free. And one falsifying ingredients lists. And... nah, that`s about it.
I do quite frustrated about the misinformation and the way it is used to guilt owners purely to sell more expensive products, and the unhelpful virtue signaling which seems increasingly rife.

Pole to Pole thanks for the info about grain free. The dog food comparison site scored some grain free foods very highly and I was being seduced that way but didn’t know about the health risks.

Youre very welcome jacquelinedaniels for the FDA to <span class="line-through">get off their backsides and do something for once</span> open an investigation, let alone to still be investigating, there has to be considerable, substantial scientific evidence and concern, not just rumour, speculation or pr. Thats enough for me to steer clear until there is more information one way or the other, and its not like there arent good foods out there which arent grain free .

Thats actually another issue I have with dog food comparison websites, why are they scoring grain free dog foods so highly when there are serious concerns about them? Shouldnt there be a disclaimer or note of some sort informing that there is an open investigation into them?

Royal canin wet and dry mini puppy food here, gets cooked meat, cheese and raw veg as treats. Recommended by the breeder when we got her, I trusted their judgement as had no experience or reason not to. Always solid poos, no tummy trouble.🤞🏻

I don't think the criticism of grain-free found on this post are quite right. The FDA is looking into dog food but around legumes and pulses - have a look at this if you are interested but the pertinent but says "
Is this an issue with only grain-free diets or diets containing legumes or pulses?
No. FDA has received reports of non-hereditary DCM associated with both grain-free and grain-containing diets. Most of the diets associated with reports of non-hereditary DCM have non-soy legumes and pulses (e.g., peas, lentils, etc.) high in their ingredient lists. However, it is important to note that legumes and pulses have been used in pet foods for many years, with no evidence to indicate they are inherently dangerous "
www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/animal-health-literacy/questions-answers-fdas-work-potential-causes-non-hereditary-dcm-dogs

The big pet.food companies are desperate to discredit grain free as they have been using it as a cheap filler for decades.

Your summary is not exactly right, KillingEvenings, its taking things a bit out of context.

What they have found so far, is that of the dogs which they are investigating who developed DCM, 90% were on grain free diets, and 93% on diets containing high levels of peas and legumes.
There are numerous reports of dogs who had DCM but it either improved or resolved once they were take off a "boutique, exotic, grain free" (BEG) diet and were given a taurine supplement.

The advice the FDA have given so far is that if your dog is on a grain free diet, they should be being monitored by a vet or veterinary cardiologist for signs of DCM.

This alert from the ASPCA is a good summary:

www.aspca.org/news/grain-free-pet-food-helpful-or-harmful-diet

From the article:

"It is worth noting that there have been no reported cases of dogs developing nutritionally mediated DCM while eating a food that meets the World Small Animal Veterinary Association (WSAVA) guidelines, so that is a good place to start"

World Small Animal Veterinary Association guidelines on selecting pet food (PDF link):

wsava.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Selecting-the-Best-Food-for-your-Pet.pdf

Of course, if you want to feed your dog grain free and feel its all just a conspiracy, that`s your choice, but people should be aware of the health risks so that they can make an informed decision.

Article from Todays Veterinary Practice about grain free diets and CDM:

todaysveterinarypractice.com/study-grain-free-diet-for-dogs-leads-to-canine-heart-disease/

News article listing the 16 brands which have cases of CDM associated with them so far, not the most reliable news network, but the brand overview is useful and accurate:

www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-names-16-brands-dog-food-linked-canine-heart-disease-n1025466

I highly recommend Millies Wolfheart. Have a look at their website. Great quality food and good delivery service. My 3 dogs look great on it. They are on Surf and Turf.

This is a particularly good article, which explains that it isn`t just grain free dog foods, but also "boutique" ones which are a risk:

vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2018/11/dcm-update/

From the above article:

"Contrary to popular belief, there are no health benefits of grain-free or exotic ingredient diets except in the rare case of food allergy."

The three ladies who write for the blog at Tufts Uni Center of Veterinary Medicine write brilliant articles, they are impartial and the are extremely highly qualified and well respected. They are board certified veterinary nutritionists, which takes an extra two years on top vet school focusing solely on nutrition.

@PurpleBirch

I highly recommend Millies Wolfheart. Have a look at their website. Great quality food and good delivery service. My 3 dogs look great on it. They are on Surf and Turf.

I agree. Mine loves it, a show cocker spaniel, and is on the Countryside mix. Slowly switch over to whichever new food you choose so as to not upset sensitive tums.

Yep, I mean, I was just quoting directly from the FDA, but whatever.
I'm not sure where the ASPCA gets it's numbers, but they don't match with the FDA's numbers in the article I linked to. They are using half the numbers, so maybe only the half that had grain free diets

They are small numbers nonetheless. Hard to draw conclusions with such a small sample (90 million dogs in the US, and they have 100 reports a year?) and many multiples of that have had positive experiences, so I think best to leave it at 'There have been reports or questions about this' rather than implying that a blanket ban is around the corner. And as an aside, the FDA is hardly the be-all and end-all of health ](chlorinated chicken and gmo springs to mind.)

You were taking the quote out of context though KillingEvenings. Did you read the link I gave to Tufts Unis article? They have been involved in further studies, outside of the FDAs own investigation.

They confirm that there are no known advantages, outside of allergy (which is rare) to feed grain free or "boutique" (their term) foods, so if there are no advantages, but there may be life threatening disadvantages, surely its best to give them a swerve until we are certain, one way or the other?

If you want to feed your dog grain free, and take the health risks under advisement, that`s your choice, we all have to do what we feel is best for our dogs, but as I said before, dog food is such a minefield that its good to be aware of many different issues

@PoleToPole, thanks for the links. I was aware of the link between grain free and DCM, but not of some of the details.

Thanks everyone, and that was really interesting reading about the grain free foods and possible issues with them.

I have checked out the all about dog food site and Gelert seems to come out ok so we shall probably stick to that for the first couple of months, and also seek advice from the vet.