If you are a breeder can I ask a question?

[BoobyBetty22]

Not wanting a massive debate but please can you explain why you are now charging £££££ for puppies?

Is it to discourage people buying puppies?

Or honestly to make a profit.

I’m not here to argue or debate. Will respect an honest answer.

I’m guessing it’s supply and demand, loads of people wanting puppies who will pay big money so they are putting the prices up.
I’m not a breeder.

Supply and demand and also to reduce the risk of puppies being sold on for profit. A breeder can put as many clauses as they like in a contract but they still can't always stop it

Pedigrees have always been expensive. Mum will have vet bills, scans and pay stud fees in most cases. Puppies often come socialised and having been exposed to a variety of noises etc. Some come having had some jabs already - same with cats. Most breeders of pedigree dogs will charge similar amounts with a small amount of variation dependent on their dogs family tree, history etc.

The reality is a backyard breeder will charge huge amounts for a very young pup that they call a 'bo-jack' or 'cavachon', or sometimes that they claim is an actual breed like a 'french bulldog', but who when you look at them often isn't. Their pups tend to sick, mums tend to be very overbred and there won't be info packs given out or helpful advice on the end of a phone. A proper breeder will quiz you about your experience of dogs, the breed and your family position, want you to meet their dogs and turn you down if they're concerned you haven't thought things through. Other breeders breed outside KC and also may not have had the same health checks/scans/tests that most recommended breeders are supposed to do. They vary much more, some have no idea what they're doing and others do.

Either way, byb sell at high prices purely for profit. Most other breeders who do proper tests and health checks, may often attend shows and therefore travel (more costs), be involved in breed associations etc. cannot make a profit because it's near nigh impossible with outgoing costs.

I just wonder why if your an ethical breeder the prices have shot up that much.
In 2019 a french bulldog would cost £1500 (a fair price) but now cost £4000

I am a vet nurse and vet prices haven’t changed much in the last year

An ethical breeder would not be breeding french bulldogs!

No ethical breeder I have spoken to has put their prices up for Covid. We have a 10 week old lab puppy from a KC Assured Breeder, and he was £1200. She has always charged £1200, her prices don’t change.

We were trying to get on the list for a KC Assured Breeder of Hungarian Vizslas, and she was charging £1400, which she has charged for years, again no Covid price rise.

Vizslas are over £3k on pet selling sites, and people are paying it. So I would say no ethical breeder has hiked prices.

None of the (ethical) breeders I know have changed their prices. Most have, instead, put a pause on any breeding until the pandemic is over. This is for a few reasons:

• many breed to show or compete but shows/competitions are just not happening now;
• there is reduced opportunities for puppies to get good socialisation experiences and so they would rather produce puppies until the world is the right way up again
• they want to avoid their puppies going to people whose circumstances may change when the pandemic is over, thus reduce the chances of them being rehomed when people go back to work etc.

Unfortunately that means a greater % of the puppies being bred right now are coming from a different type of breeder.

We bought a pedigree lab from a reputable breeder. Microchipped, vaccinated, socialised for just over £1000 in October. They aren’t all putting prices up.

@PollyRoulson

An ethical breeder would not be breeding french bulldogs!

Very true

I think the decent breeders who have bred haven't put their prices up but also haven't had to advertise on freelistings, they may already have had waiting lists. So when you do look on freelistings it's all the less-reputable types who've hiked their prices, breeding for cash and nothing to do with the health of the dogs :(

"An ethical breeder would not be breeding french bulldogs!"
Is that really true?
Just to add that I have absolutely no interest in French Bull dogs and never will have just interested in that comment. Does that also apply to any dog with a squashed face; bull dogs, pugs boxers etc (again I wouldn't want to own any of these either). What about other desirable but totally unnatural malformations bred in by man? Excessively droopy eyes, excessive skin, bulging eyes etc.

@bunnygeek

I think the decent breeders who have bred haven't put their prices up but also haven't had to advertise on freelistings, they may already have had waiting lists. So when you do look on freelistings it's all the less-reputable types who've hiked their prices, breeding for cash and nothing to do with the health of the dogs :(

I’d agree with this. Our breeder never advertised, we were just lucky that we’d had a dog from her before, so she put us on her list

@bunnygeek

I think the decent breeders who have bred haven't put their prices up but also haven't had to advertise on freelistings, they may already have had waiting lists. So when you do look on freelistings it's all the less-reputable types who've hiked their prices, breeding for cash and nothing to do with the health of the dogs :(

This was my experience - the breeder I got DDog from hadn't put her prices up.

(And given that her prices took into account proper vet care for the mother, proper vet care for the pups, worming, flea treatment, micro-chipping, etc. I don't think her prices were in any way unreasonable).

I saw ads at the same time for pups costing twice what I paid, where everything about the ad - wording, photos, general air of evasiveness about details - just made you think "avoid, avoid, avoid!"

@gettinglonginthetooth

"An ethical breeder would not be breeding french bulldogs!" Is that really true? Just to add that I have absolutely no interest in French Bull dogs and never will have just interested in that comment. Does that also apply to any dog with a squashed face; bull dogs, pugs boxers etc (again I wouldn't want to own any of these either). What about other desirable but totally unnatural malformations bred in by man? Excessively droopy eyes, excessive skin, bulging eyes etc.

Boxers are I think not as bad... but french bulldogs, pugs and English bulldogs are in a horrendous state, most can’t breathe, they often can’t mate by themselves and most can’t give birth and have to have c sections.

There are a very few breeders about who say they’re trying to fix that all that... but tbh, not even sure at this point if that’s ethical either.

English Bull Dogs, especially, cannot now be corrected within breed. They no longer contain enough genetic diversity to do so, so the only option is to introduce a different breed to try and encourage diversity - and that takes time and generations to get right and it's a valid question whether or not it is fair/ethical to the 'in between' generations to have to live their lives with such physical disfuction.

It's been said before, but far, far greater importance needs to be placed on functionality of dog breeds (over form).

It's a fair comment about other issues, such as excessive skin folds, bulging eyes, drooping eyelids. All of those should also be taken much more seriously as breed faults because they negatively impact the welfare of the dog. But they aren't and people still want dogs with those flaws, and so breeders still breed from dogs with those flaws, and so dogs continue to suffer.

I honestly worry, at this rate, we will breed most dogs out of existence, because we place such value on warped looks over health.

We definitely paid an inflated price for our puppy. Springer Spaniel for £2250 but the lowest price I saw in months of looking for either a Cocker or Springer was £1800. I wouldn't have paid more than £2250 - that was my absolute max - but there were breeders out there trying to charge £3000+ The breeders were completely reputable and very thorough in their research into where the puppies were going. But I don't blame them for charging what seems to be the going rate at the moment. Supply and demand as others have said.

I’m just not breeding.

"Boxers are I think not as bad"
Why are boxers not as bad?
I googled it and found [https://www.bluecross.org.uk/pet-advice/things-think-about-buying-flat-faced-dog this]] and lots more it seems boxers are amongst the breeds at risk.
The more I think about it the more I find it bizarre that dogs are bred to be unhealthy and these malformations make them it would appear more desirable. So it is a fair comment to say the breeders of these dogs are not ethical.

“Why are boxers not as bad?”

The breed isn’t in as bad a state is what I meant - heads aren’t as exaggerated as the others mentioned, they’re supposed to be athletic so while there are health issues they’re usually functional enough to do dog things.

And not as popular so less terrible breeding as well than those other 3.

Brachycephalic dogs in general are a horrible idea - but some breeds are in a worse state than others and boxers aren’t anywhere near the worst.

My dog has just had puppies well in November, it was accidental mating,
I did charge more for my pups but tgey were the cheapest on the site as I couldn’t bare to rip people off, but then I didn’t want them being sold on either. Mine are at least 500 cheaper than others advertised.
i have spent a fortune on equipment, blankets, food, milk, toys, puppy packs, heating & electricity to care for these pups. They are all loved and fed well on good quality food. They have all been microchipped and are booked in for first injections next week.
It has been such hard work
My laminate needs replacing once they go next week & my girl is being spayed
Not everyone is in it for the money

No ethical breeders that I know have increased their prices, in my breed at least it's the people who put profit before their dogs. They argue it's supply and demand, but to me it's turning your dog into a cash cow.

I’ve just bought a cocker puppy for £1600... every breeder I contacted through either champ dogs or the breed club wanted at least double this! Our puppy is coming from a first time litter in a family home. He has health tested KC parents.

We bought our springer off a gamekeeper for £700 in lockdown not KC registered but we have no intention of breeding him. We seen both parents and breeder got vet checks and first sets of vaccinations. On dog selling sites we would have paid 3 times that.