Heart murmur puppy - would you buy a puppy with a heart murmur?

[Frolie]

So, we’ve been longing for a puppy and finally circumstances allow ; new house, big garden, me at home and not working. We looked for a rescue dog, but with children we couldn’t find one. (My previous rescue was a border collie) We’ve put a deposit down on a wonderful puppy a few weeks ago. We were due to collect the puppy this week. However, the vet has detected a heart murmur grade 1 at her 8 week check and therefore the breeder is keeping her for another 2 weeks, to see if the murmur disappears, when the vet sees her again in a fortnight. What should we do if the murmur hasn’t disappeared? Do we go ahead ? We’re all in love with the puppy, but would the vet bills be huge? Could we get insurance that doesn’t cost the earth? Genuinely interested to hear other people’s experiences....

It’s not a backyard breeder. They’re very professional people who are farmers. I’ve been impressed by their openness and honesty

Call me cynical, but I have a farm bred collie.
She cost me £150.
Before lockdown greed working sheepdogs/border collie puppies typically sold for £50 - £250
£500 maximum.

Yours is a poodle x collie, bred by farmers apparently.
In my experience farmers tend to have working dogs - collies, jacks, maybe Labradors.
Very rarely health tested and often cheap. For puppies anyway.
Fully trained adult sheepdogs can go for many thousands.
Poodles are no longer valued as working dogs so I presume it’s a pet or a friends pet put to stud for 💰
That and the fact it’s been given a stupid name ‘colliepoo’ and sold for £2,200 makes me question just how decent they are really.
Even now, in the midst of lockdown madness, working farm puppies are still cheaper.
I’ve seen quite a few for £1,000

And no, I wouldn’t buy a puppy with a murmur

£2200 for a mix breed puppy (collie X poodle is insane: two high energy, intelligent, highly strung breeds) is not a reputable breeder, it's someone cashing in on the booming puppy market.

I wouldn't take the puppy, but then I wouldn't be using that breeder in the first place.

2.2k for a mongrel with a heart defect - it's a no from me.

And I say that as someone waiting for my farm bred mongrel to be ready to pick up. However mines a patterdale x lakeland, and costing the princely sum of £80....

@Glimpseofsummer

£2200? Is that how much you're being charged for the puppy OP? That is an absolute disgrace for a crossbred puppy without a heart murmur, let alone with one. As a long standing breeder of show and working dogs, this is appalling frankly.

I wouldn't actually be worried about the murmur, especially if it's grade 1. It is likely a puppy flow murmur which will disappear and cause the puppy no issues at all BUT as a well known (in the showing world) breeder myself for 30 years and have requests world wide for my dogs, I wouldn't dream of selling a pedigree, fully health tested dog with a heart murmur for that much. I don't even charge that much for healthy puppies! I am heartbroken at what is happening with puppies at the moment as are most decent breeders.

If the murmur hasn't gone it two weeks time, I would walk away unless the breeder offers you this puppy for substantially less money, substantially. If not, they are completely ripping you off. If you and they have spoken at length up to now and you feel they are a responsible, genuine breeder, the fact the puppy is going to a good home will be the priority to them, not making a massive profit. If they come back in two weeks time and say the heart murmur has gone. Make sure you speak to the vet to get confirmation of this.

I'm not being a breed snob, but you will get more help from genuine bona fide long standing pedigree breeders than you will from chancer/backyard crossbred breeders at any time but particularly in these awful turbulent times. People have jumped on the bandwagon of breeding simply for the money, particularly since Covid hit and everyone wanted a puppy. I would personally advise you to have a think about pedigree breeds that would suit you, go in the Kennel Clubs website to find breed clubs or just google the breed class club/society and you will get far more help from dedicated people than you'd imagine.

I couldn't agree more ! at the practice i work at we are seeing so many xb pups and french bulldogs , not many other breeds sadly . What we are seeing are frankly often dodgy specimens that the owner has paid around 2000 for, we are all speechless at what is occurring at the moment. I dread to think of what future problems are to come in the dog world if this madness continues . I would not buy a pup under the circumstance you say .

£2k is surely the cost of an absolute top notch, health checked pedigree?
I would not pay that kind of money for a farm bred crossbreed with health problems.

A healthy mongrel puppy from a farm sounds absolutely lovely though but definitely isn't worth thousands!

Thanks for all your advice and input. The puppy went for its second vet visit and the grade 1 murmur was still present. I spoke to the vet who examined the puppy, as well as my local vet for advice. I also spoke to a pet insurance company. After much consideration we decided not to go ahead with the puppy. Insurance would be extremely expensive and there’s no way of telling whether the heart murmur would disappear, until the puppy was around 6 months old.

Hopefully we will find another healthy puppy. Unfortunately £2200 is the going rate for puppies at the moment. Lockdown has substantially increased prices. There are lots of puppies being advertised at £3000 and more.

We have just paid £1200 for a KC Registered Labrador, from a KC Assured Breeder.

If you choose a decent breeder, and wait for them to have a litter, over £2k is not the going rate. And you will be sold a healthy puppy

People paying 2k for puppies are part of the problem.

I'm sorry if that sounds mean op, but dog sakes are huge business, and animals are suffering.

Thefts are through the roof, as are sub standard breeding conditions.

@BiteyShark

Given the issues for insurance I would only go ahead if I knew I could cover any big vet bills.

A "colliepoo" is a mongrel. That price is outrageous. The breeders may be farmers, but they are not professional if they are asking that for a puppy with a birth defect. I would say No.

£2200 is the going rate for breeders who don't care about welfare, they care about profits.

Decent breeders have kept their prices stable.

@Frolie

Thanks for all your advice and input. The puppy went for its second vet visit and the grade 1 murmur was still present. I spoke to the vet who examined the puppy, as well as my local vet for advice. I also spoke to a pet insurance company. After much consideration we decided not to go ahead with the puppy. Insurance would be extremely expensive and there’s no way of telling whether the heart murmur would disappear, until the puppy was around 6 months old.

Hopefully we will find another healthy puppy. Unfortunately £2200 is the going rate for puppies at the moment. Lockdown has substantially increased prices. There are lots of puppies being advertised at £3000 and more.

I think you did the right thing as heartbreaking as it is.

@CommunistLegoBloc

£2200 is the going rate for breeders who don't care about welfare, they care about profits.

Decent breeders have kept their prices stable.

That has been my experience. We are paying £1200 for a KC registered puppy in a few weeks. We were on her list for nearly 18 months though. These puppies won't be advertised because the breeder keeps a long list of potential owners who have been through an application process.

Sorry about your puppy OP.