Why do other dogs go for mine?

[MissShapesMissStakes]

I have a mini poodle who is two.
He just seems to do something that annoys other dogs. But I've no idea what!

When he was about one some over enthusiastic labs ran over together and jumped all over him. They were out of control and while they didn't go for him they were very dominating. He was on his back, tail between his legs etc.

After that he was very wary of bigger dogs. He would just freeze when he saw one , standing so still until the dog passed him and then leg it, tail between his legs and looking over his shoulder until completely out of sight.

Over the year he's had quite a few bigger dogs jump all over him. He never approaches them. He's never snapped at a dog or growled. He's incredibly passive and will roll over immediately or stick his tail between his legs and try to escape. This has been in a number of situations, sometimes with his lead on, sometimes with it off.

In the last couple of months though three dogs have actively attacked him. Once a couple of labs (different ones) went for him while he was on a lead. My dh had to pick him up. Even then the dogs were lunging at him.

Next he walked by a group of 3 or 4 dogs his size who were all milling around each other very calmly while their owners chatted. My dog clearly felt more comfortable than usual so he approached one with his tail wagging (he was walking, not running or being excited) and the dog immediately snarled and went for him. He didn't know whether to submit, or run so he tried both and I had to pull the other dog away.

Today I had just put him on his lead as we were heading out of the woods when a dog came towards us slowly and calmly, wagging its tail. It was off lead. It annoys me that people allow their dogs to approach a dog on a lead but I didn't want to call to the owner to get his dog as everything seemed so calm and waggy.
The dog came over and my dog stood still but they sniffed and then suddenly the bugger dog went for mine. Completely out of the blue (to my eye). I had to again get involved. The owner apologised and said 'he doesn't usually do that' (which makes me think the dog had done stuff like that before maybe).

I just don't understand why my dog keeps annoying other dogs so much! He's such a lovely boy! I wonder whether he now emits nervous-ness and that's what makes the other dogs behave that way?

Am I missing something? Is there some really subtle body language he's getting wrong?

Not sure what to do to be honest. I try to be calm and assume the off lead dog is ok and leave mine off lead. And I know dogs feel more relaxed off lead with another dog because they can escape. But he never runs away. He just lies there yelling and crying. It's awful. Poor little guy was so spooked today.

Is he intact? There are reasons for and against neutering, but some dogs really dislike intact dogs

Sorry in all the waffle I missed that fact - no he's not in tact.

What colour is he? Lots of dogs don't like black dogs much as they can't see their facial expressions properly (or so I have read) - my dog is rather wary of black dogs. Otherwise, I can't account for it - my dog would LOVE yours - she is fine with all poodly dogs.

Without knowing your full story, could I suggest he's not been properly socialised on how to behave with other dogs?

Might be the black dog thing if your dog is black. My friends have a dog known and the friendliest dog ever and has never disliked a dog, until it met my all black dog

What's his body language like? Has he been well-socialised with other dogs up until now?

How old was he when he was neutered?

Tbh we will never know.

People will suggest too early neutering, black dogs, can't be read as well, dogs with hair over their eyes can not be understood, it may be your neigbhourhood dogs are just thugs, the fact it is not all dogs makes me want to blame the other dogs not yours etc.

You will never know and tbh it will make no difference if you do know.

Just be your dogs advocate ensure there are no negative interactions by stepping in, turning away and picking up your dog and legging it. Be prepared to ask peole to call their dogs away.

Make sure it is you that stands up to the dogs and owners (politely of course) if you leave it to y our dog they will have no choice but to up the anti and even be more scared or be forced to lunge bark growl etc.

Lots of dogs don't like black dogs much as they can't see their facial expressions properly
My dog hates black dogs! Had no idea about the facial expression thing.

I think it must be a body language thing OP. We can’t tell, but they can.

Have you tried a Yellow ‘nervous dog’ lead, collar/harness? That will at least help other dog owners know that they need to keep their dogs away from yours.

Wow, I did not know that about black dogs but it makes complete sense. My gorgeous, sweet natured little terrier has been on the receiving end of some nips from other dogs and I have thought she must give off some sort of vibe - she's completely black, can't even see her eyes in amongst her fur.

Yes please suggest away!

I don't know lots of people with dogs. But he's been walked with my friends dog a few times as a puppy. She wasn't interested and he was a puppy so was excited about her. But he couldn't keep up - nothing much happened.

He's met my in laws two bigger dogs a few times. And he is fine with them staying in our house. We put extra water bowls and toys out but he's not bothered if they use his. He will walk with them and not fuss or be over the top with them. But is also happy to play. They are much older but all get on fine.

In the past he's met dogs on walks and played nicely. A little crazy when he was younger but the ones that he actually played with never snapped etc.

He went through the typical puppy phase of wanting to play with every dog. But I was very much on top of that. He has his long line and we worked hard on recall but allowed him to play with other dogs once I'd checked with the owner. (I'm a little over the top about him bothering other people because I used to hate random dogs approaching so I really wanted his recall to be great).

I put him in a dog daycare type place for a while but after a few weeks they suggested he wasn't enjoying it. I didn't need him to go so stopped it. They said that he wasn't a problem. Just that he was totally focussed on the person and was nervous of the other dogs. And one dog in particular was overly 'interested' in him so they would keep them separate. He never got snapped at or anything though and the place seemed very much on top of everything.

Sometimes he does look scared of other dogs. And sometimes it looks like he's nervous. But if a dog approaches calmly he seems to match their body language. Will play now to theirs etc. But I don't know. Clearly something goes wrong - I just don't know what to look for.

He's light coloured.

Thanks everyone.

The nervous dog lead - I don't know. I mean, he's nervous of big dogs jumping on him, being humped or snapped at. But he's very much happy to play with other dogs. He was racing round the field happily with another poodle we bumped into the other day. No problems.

It's since lockdown really that things have turned to snapping and overwhelming him. Wonder if it's just that there are so many more people out walking their dog in our woods? (There are so many now!).

@PollyRoulson thank you. I am always the one to get him out of the situation. I think he'd be eaten before he legged it or snapped back! I've picked him up, shouted at owners, I now carry a stick round the woods. Which is sad really.

I felt so sorry for him today. He was launched at by the bigger dog from nowhere. Then we carried on and he played ball happily then suddenly a load of barking from a distance and he had his tail between his leg and headed very quickly got home glancing behind him constantly.

I need to find a nice dog to walk him with. But no one I know nearby have dogs.

Ahhh, poor little thing! I have a Golden Retriever and we are meeting lots of dogs lately that snarl and bark at her. Have no idea why as I recall her and put her on the lead as soon as I spot another dog. She's also the friendliest and most playful girl and will submit if the dog is bigger or barks at her. I usually just shrug my shoulders with the other owners, look skywards and say 'Dogs eh!'. We can't always translate what's going on with them and they can be so unpredictable. Sometimes I do get a bit cross (internally!) on my dog's behalf as she doesn't do anything but when it comes down to it, they're animals and forget about it almost immediately.

It sounds like this is happening on and off lead with these other dogs and I think you just can't take it personally for him! It's not about him, it's them. You sound like a really responsible owner so maybe you're overthinking - there's nothing more you can do to change your behaviour so be more confident in what you're doing.

Do you know someone else with a friendly dog that you can walk him with? So weird about your friend's dog and I also immediately wondered if he was a black dog. I would have all the time in the world for a friend or neighbour with a timid dog so there must be someone you can have good experiences with?

My dog can't be trusted with anything that 'scampers', and she's a particular arsehole with fluffy dogs. I do keep her on the lead unless I have a clear view in all directions...

Have a read about calming signals, @MissShapesMissStakes, and watch to see if he uses them. It might be that he hasn’t learned how to diffuse situations with other dogs. You can try using some (the ‘look away’, blinking, lip licking) and see how he responds.
en.turid-rugaas.no/calming-signals---the-art-of-survival.html

A decent dog behaviourist may be able to work with him with a well-socialised dog to teach him, if that’s the case?

I think it’s maybe a fear/body language thing. The same thing happens to my dog (not black). He’s scared and maybe gives off some vibes?
He’s been attacked so many times. It started before we neutered him. Dogs would run out of nowhere and go for him. Think he gave off a smell or something.

It annoys me so much when people say ‘oh my dogs never done this before’. Like it’s my dog’s fault he’s been attacked.

@Delatron - yes! People always say that. And that infers he's done something wrong. And I always end up saying 'ah yes. He seems to irritate other dogs'. Which annoys me afterwards. I shouldn't do that!
I think you're right - they must pick up on his nerves.

@AgeOfExploration - thank you. I will definitely look those up and see if I can see any links there.

@SunnySideDownBriefly - thanks. You sound lovely. We are shielding which isn't helping as we try to go out when it's quiet first thing. Just don't know anyone nearby with a dog. Weird really! All seem to be cat people.

I think it must be a body language thing too.
One of my dogs hates dogs who stiffen up and stare, it worries her to the point she stiffens up too and it creates a massive tension between them.
One of my others hates anything that goes low to the ground and stalks.
My youngest dog is the most lovely boy but is hated by all dogs, I think it’s his humongous size

Regardless of what it is it’s something that you won’t be able to fix as it’s not your dog with the issue. Providing yours is on a lead and under control.
To solve the problem I decided my dogs wouldn’t socialise with strangers any more and you know what our walks are infinitely much better and my dogs are happier too. I don’t miss the stress of meeting dogs and wondering if they will bite mine and neither do my dogs.

There’s no need for him to be social with dogs you don’t know, I would rather protect him and take the risk element away and in turn he will probably become more confident knowing you’ll shield him from others.

Firstly if I see another dog I put mine on a lead to make it obvious. If another dog is still approaching I ask mine to sit/stand or focus on me to make it obvious that I don’t want to be bothered. I will sometimes pull to the side of the track if it’s a woods etc and make it as obvious as I can that I’m training and don’t want to be pestered.

If it’s still coming I block the dog with my body language and tell the owner to get their bloody dog away from mine. No room for politeness any more and if it makes your dog feel safer who cares if your rude!

I would do socialisation with him but in a controlled environment, training class or with a dog you know is friendly and matches his personality and play style. Letting dogs jump allover eachother and approach whoever and whatever they like without permission from both parties is not socialisation, it’s lazy dog ownership

Thanks @Leonberger Yes I think I need to get ruder! The thing is he will go out of his way to avoid dogs anyway. It's just that they approach him. I read that they feel more stress on a lead so I leave him off and usually he will just take a wide berth and be left to himself.

When he is on a lead then people just let their dog approach anyway. And I need to be more bolshy about that. Because I know not to let mine approach a dog on a lead. Others don't seem to realise how rude and risky is could be for their dog!

A sheepdog stalked him the other day. From across the other side of a field. The owner was so far away and just smiling. I assumed it would stalk and then wander off because the owner was so relaxed. But it then suddenly ran at him. I got in the way and blocked it. It only wanted to sniff I think but I wasn't having my dog approached in such a way. The owner was too far away to even hear me if I shouted. Luckily it ran after the owner once I blocked it! That was just bad manners and terribly ownership. Nothing to do with mine at all!

Sorry by sheepdog I mean a collie. My daughter calls them that!

What I started to do was being a very assertive advocate for my dog eg calling to other owners, ' can you put your dog on a lead? my dog isn't good with other dogs'
I couldn't anticipate which dogs would be problematic, so I just decided to take control of the situation when out and about.
I also worked on building relationships gradually with known calm dogs to build my dog's confidence and social skills.

Yes I read that in a training book. Be your dog’s best advocate. So I block him from other dogs approaching (body block). Walk away with him and call to the owners etc.

I also do the same as @Singinginshower.

I will usually shout something along the lines of recall your dog please they are in training.
If that doesn't work they bite usually get them running to collect it although mine are a lot lot bigger than yours. One of mine is quite defensive at times from being attacked so I have to body block her which is what I would do, get yourself or a leg in-between the other dog and yours and tell it firmly to go away. Sometimes pointing in the direction of an owner sends them back.

I would always have yours on a lead if you see another dog just because it does give you the moral high ground to say my dog is on lead for a reason and it gives you the ability to be able to place him where you want him, far away from the other dog.

Mine seems to get jumped on lot, particularly from labs. Fortunately it's more 'bullying' rather than aggression from the other dogs.

I quickly turn around in the opposite direction and walk away which tends to be the best course of action because either the dog doesn't want to follow you and returns to the owner or they do and I keep walking fast which makes the owner nervous about losing their dog and spurs them into getting them under control.

Thanks everyone.

This morning I took him out extra early to avoid the throngs of new owners, or new walkers at least. It was much quieter.

I had one dog run up to us (no owner in sight) so I put myself between my dog and that one and it left.

It's such a shame as he's not a snappy dog and used to want to play. But too many over the top dogs and their crappy owners have made him like this.

I will aim to be more assertive definitely. I need to do that in general anyway so this can be my springboard to it! Look out dog walkers here I come!

Just for reference this is the trouble maker looking threatening on his favourite sequinned cushion.