Genuinely dont know what to do for the best

[WanderingHopefully]

We have a real dilemma with our 12 year old Labrador. With previous dogs, we've always known when 'that' time has come, but we're really torn here. She's a rescue we've had for 8 years, very intelligent and quite intense compared to previous Labs. She knows when feeding time is and will stare and nudge you until you feed her, same with walks. Obey the last year or so, she's really aged (understandable of course). Her vision isn't great and she's pretty deaf; she also has signs of dementia. The vet gave her vivitonin, which brought about an improvement, but she returned to her usual confused state within a few days. Her back legs are weak now, but she still enjoys a short walk, especially at the beach.

The issues now relate to her, and our, quality of life. She's always been terrified of coughing and sneezing, but now laughter and slightly higher pitched voices eg children's or adults talking to children also terrify her, and she will have to leave the room. Sometimes she will randomly sit in front of me and tremble, so much so that her teeth chatter. I don't know what's wrong: if she's scared, in pain or confused. She's also become very unreliable with toileting. So she's messed in the house twice in the last 3 days, once in the car, and weed in the house. This is more than usual, we've just moved into short term accommodation, so it could be that, but she will have accidents in the car fairly regularly. Some days she pesters to go out maybe 10 times, and will then come in and go to the loo in the house.

Her hips are uncomfortable (she's on medication which does help) but she still loves to go for a walk. She likes meeting other dogs and people too, so she does have some pleasure in her life. She eats well.

We don't know what to do for the best. The incontinence is difficult, she doesn't seem to be bothered, but obviously it's pretty unpleasant for us. Yes, her back legs are wobbly, but she can still enjoy walks. The trembling concerns me, what if she's living a very scared life inside her muddled head? We just don't know what to do for the best, for all of us. We've moved home and won't be in our new property for probably 6 months, so we don't have a relationship with a vet that we know, or that knows her well. Any thoughts would be very gratefully received.

Can you phone your old vet who knows her? They would be able to advise about the teeth chattering and so on.

Also consider what she has left of all the things she used to enjoy. We have an elderly dog on pain meds who has increasing weakness in his legs, and we're going to be having this discussion within the next year or so.

I’m so sorry, poor dog. I second the opinion to call a vet for advice. They’ll be familiar with the behaviours you describe even if they don’t know the dog.

Thank you both. She's been super healthy all the time we have had her and we've moved home twice so no vet knows her well. But it's definitely worth getting some advice from a vet. Thank you It's so hard isn't it. She so happy on the beach and paddling in the sea, but I'm not sure about the rest of the time. I'm desperate not to have her PTS just because her incontinence is difficult for us. It has to be because it's right for her in terms of the balance of quality of life.

It’s so hard knowing what to do for the best. I hope a vet can help you and that she will be ok. Have you thought about dog sanitary nappies/pants? Depending on the amount of urine/whether she would keep them on. Or absorbent pads that you could slide under her if you see her getting ready to go.
My lab has kidney disease and will vomit if he eats /steals food. If I hear him retching I’ll grab the pad to slide under him and save my flooring a bit.

Thanks. It's usually pooing really, more than weeing, and because her back legs are getting weak, it just drops out without any advance warning (sorry tmi). I think what's driving our thoughts is what's best for her, what her quality of life is like, and alongside that (but less important), the unpleasant task of clearing up after her. When so many things scare her now, is that counterbalanced enough by how much she enjoys going out for a walk? And being totally honest, it's hard not to get irritated with she's pesters to go out maybe 3 or 4 times in an hour, so you let her out but she doesn't actually need to go. Poor old girl

Sudden development of noise sensitivity, or sensitivity to different sounds than previously, can be a sign of pain in dogs.

Maybe have a word with a vet?

@Shambolical1

Sudden development of noise sensitivity, or sensitivity to different sounds than previously, can be a sign of pain in dogs.

Maybe have a word with a vet?

That interesting (and sad), I didn't know that. We'd just assumed as she's quite deaf, that she was scared because the higher pitched sounds of laughter and young children kind of come out of the blue to her and make her jump, if that makes sense?

We took her to a new vet about a month ago too where we were on holiday at the time as she's also developed inter digital cysts. She'd lost a couple of kilos over the last year too, although she eats well. Think we'll ask around where we are now for a vet recommendation, and get her seen. Thank you. Just to make her pain control more complex, she can't tolerate most NSAIDS. Previcox is ok, so she takes that and 1/2 a paracetamol X 2/day

Is she on any supplements in addition to the prescribed meds? I've heard good things about Yumove, for example, it might be worth trialling some supplements as NSAIDs aren't an option... or maybe something like hydrotherapy?
It sounds like she's had a few changes recently (new home and staying elsewhere for a holiday) which may have been a little unsettling given her confusion - could you try having a firmer routine for a couple of weeks and see if she does better with that?
I'd definitely try and find a vet you have confidence in too.

It's common for them to become incontinent when their back legs are going, they lose sensations so can't feel when they need to go.

When our dog got to the stage yours is at, we had her put to sleep (after wrangling with it for several months!) basically my vet said that I should try and add up what percentage of her time is happy time, as in does the good outweigh the bad. By then, she wasn't bothered about walks but loved a car ride, and was losing her appetite as well as being incontinent, so we felt like we were keeping her going more for our benefit than hers.

@WanderingHopefully oh dear, that sounds difficult to manage on the poo side. Labs always seem to have very sensitive tummies when it comes to the pain meds too. Can’t even give mine the yumove, which I think is herbal.
Good luck with the vet, hope she will be ok.

Thanks everyone. She was on Yumove for a while, but there wasn't really any improvement unfortunately. I think the routine point is a really good one. She's had a lot of upheaval in the last few months (and we've all been quite ill with covid so that made a routine hard). Maybe the way forward is to get her into a proper routine in the next week or so, and try to find a good vet to talk things through with. Whilst she loves walking, the rest of her time is either asleep or looking a bit nonplussed. I made the mistake of keeping our last dog going for too long on reflection, and putting her through a second cancer operation in vain, I don't ever want to make the same mistake again. It's haunted me ever since.

My Labrador (15) has been incontinent for over a year. It's not every day but several times a week. It's not pleasant but I decided that a few minutes of hassle (poo bag, Dettol wipe, air freshener) was better than guilt over PTS through it. He also wears a bellyband and pad at night as he leaks a little urine. He has been blind since he was 6 from a genetic disorder, had two strokes two years ago, but still enjoys his walks, food, company and looks pretty fit, wonderful coat, slim and handsome.

Our vet told me that incontinence can be managed and I found it can be - mostly. Feeding the bulk of his food at breakfast time was the first thing I changed and I rarely come down to poo at dawn now. He only lies in his bed or on a thick pad in the sitting room. As his pooing has got horribly irregular, I have, over the last few days, given him half a mug of cows' milk after his breakfast and the same after supper. It is a very mild laxative (an aperient) and, fingers crossed, he has 'been' the last three times, about three quarters of an hour or so later, while out for a short stroll.

If he were in pain or incurable distress of course I would be thinking of PTS, but as he is not in pain nor distress I shall carry on. At his age it won't be forever and it's some small repayment in my love for all he has given me.