I have a Romanian Rescue Dog - AMA.

[Youdonut]

Hoping this will be useful for anyone considering taking on a Romanian Rescue dog, as I see this topic come up fairly frequently.

Not claiming to be an expert, far from it, but I can share some honest and real experiences so you can get a feel for what you may encounter. We got our dog direct from the rescue - no UK middleman. So when she left Romania, she came straight to our door. We are 3 months in, very early days. However, seen various threads where people are pulling their hair our after a week or two, or asking if they think a Romanian rescue dog would fit their family. Whilst a handful of people have a relatively easy ride with such dogs, it is the exception not the rule. Very hard work, yet very rewarding.

Only one persons opinion/experience, but hopefully it may be useful to someone.

I should add - this thread is not intended to be a topic on the debate of rescuing from the UK or Abroad, it's done to death and if you want to discuss it, please do so elsewhere.

Well said - we rescued a Romanian dog in February. I've had 13 years of experience of a reactive terrier, but his issues are very different. This was a dog who had lived in a foster home with lots of other dogs in the UK prior to coming to us. He was reactive to my husband, other dogs, visitors etc etc., and was shutdown when he came here for several weeks. They require a lot of faith and patience - if you can't put in the work, don't do it. We are still having issues (see other thread re reactivity to visitors), lockdown has not been our friend and has made training and seeing a behaviourist doubly difficult. We still have the occasional bad day with him (usually with dogs coming up to him) but to see him grow to love all our family and our other dog, respond really well to recall training and learn to give a paw etc., has been priceless.

Do you have children, and is overseas adoption a route you'd recommend for families with DC in general?

I've got two older children - 17 and 23 years old. Our rescue has taken up a lot of my time - time that I can afford as I'm self-employed, work part time and can work flexibly.
I think many overseas rescues (mine included) have herding/guarding instincts which are hardwired and not necessarily compatible with young children.
Comparing the three dogs we have had- one from a puppy, one from a UK rescue and one from overseas rescue, the puppy (now 8) has caused us the least amount of stress and been the most 'dog like' - playing with the kids, easy to walk, not reactive etc.,
Be prepared to be in it for the long haul - reactivity and other issues that come with many rescues, particularly overseas ones, can only really be managed and not 'cured'.

@vanillandhoney

Do you have children, and is overseas adoption a route you'd recommend for families with DC in general?

No children currently, and honestly? No I'd not recommend it for families with children. I'm sure there will be the odd one that may comment it worked for them but in my opinion and experience it's very unsuitable for a couple of reasons, and I'd actually advise against it for families with any age children except mature and responsible older children (18+) who are willing and want to contribute to the dogs care and training.

The main reason being you have no idea (really) what you're going to get. The rescue (whether direct or UK based) can give you all the info they like, mine did and sent me plenty of videos of how she reacted to the rescuer, and true I did get a feel for her and was correct in my suspicions, however still had more than enough surprises. Obviously the main thing is the safety of children.

The other reason, is most of the dogs need a hell of a lot rehab. They are completely anxiety ridden and are nothing like UK bred dogs. Most adults don't really know how to deal with them so unreasonable to be able to children to know how to. This has the potential to cause problematic situations but also confuse the dog, leading to more anxiety etc. Like setting them up for failure.

The amount of time needed for most of them, I don't feel parents with non-adult children would be able to give should the dog arrive and worst case scenario need complete rehabilitation.

Sorry for long answer but wanted to explain my reasoning properly :)

The other reason, is most of the dogs need a hell of a lot rehab.
That confirms my own (anecdotal) experiences with the local dogs that have come from overseas rescues. I can only think of four (out of about 10) who settled in relatively easily (and a couple of those were very nervous to start with and took a lot of kind and gentle handle, and then one of them died suddenly and unexpectedly within a year or so or arriving here). Of the others:
One was very nervous and I haven't seen her about for ages
One bolted within a few weeks of arrival and was never found
One escaped a garden and was missing for a week+
One has finally settled fairly well but was a very long and time consuming project for her owner
One has dog aggression and has caused his owner a lot of stress
One is almost never off-lead, not sure why

It seems that if you get a younger one (older puppy) or one that has had some training (e.g. hunting dog via a breed rescue), your chances of an easy ride are much higher.

Thanks for answering OP 😊

I hope this thread is seen by posters recommending Romanian rescues to young families.

Are you not concerned that by potentially encouraging people to adopt from EasternnEurope you add to the risks of getting diseases such as rabies introduced to the U.K.?

Are you concerned about people adopting from abroad because it seems to be the ‘in thiNg’, are contributing to a foreign puppy farming industry.

Are you aware that puppy smuggling into the U.K. is a massive money maker?

Are you aware how concerned vets are about the volume of Romanian imports?

Does the dog understand English?
Or are you having to give it commands in Romanian?

@Tamingofthehamster

Are you not concerned that by potentially encouraging people to adopt from EasternnEurope you add to the risks of getting diseases such as rabies introduced to the U.K.?

Are you concerned about people adopting from abroad because it seems to be the ‘in thiNg’, are contributing to a foreign puppy farming industry.

Are you aware that puppy smuggling into the U.K. is a massive money maker?

Are you aware how concerned vets are about the volume of Romanian imports?

Well, it's quite obvious that these goady questions are really dressed up as a debate about whether people should rescue from abroad or not, which I specifically stated this thread is not for. However, as some of the questions are misinformed ones which may spread more misinformation, I'll bite on this occasion for the purposes of others who may be reading this and be equally as in the dark. However, if further posts do derail, I will report. I don't mind genuine questions - but an obvious agenda I do.

'Are you not concerned that by potentially encouraging people to adopt from EasternnEurope you add to the risks of getting diseases such as rabies introduced to the U.K.?'

Firstly, I'm not encouraging anyone to import dogs from anywhere. In fact, on this thread alone I've already discouraged (if indeed I've had any influence at all) most of the population of mumsnet - that is families with children, by stating I don't believe they are suitable for such homes. You may think you are being clever with your insinuations, but you're actually just being very rude and transparant as to your intentions here.

To answer the question. No. Because the dogs need to have rabies vaccines before travelling into the UK, and there is a period of time the dogs have to wait following this vaccine before travelling (much like humans). This is all recorded on passports which you need to be able to produce en-route. Given that a dog travelling to the UK from Romania will actually travel through several countries before hitting calais, the likeliness of a dog not being checked somewhere en-route is nil.

Further, there is no risk of rabies being 'introduced' to the UK. It is already here. I am a UK bat worker, and as such have already needed to have my rabies vaccinations and titre tests because we have rabies in the UK. The last death from rabies I believe was 2006. Each year bats are tested in the UK, mostly thanks to bat workers, and there has not been one year clear from rabies yet. Of course, I wouldn't expect people not working with animals to be privvy to this information, but it easily available out there if you are researching, or even just concerned, about the prevelance of rabies in the UK.

There is a reason the general public are told not to pick up injured/grounded bats with their hands. It may not be rife, and average Jo has nothing to fear from it, but it's very much here. That is also why the UK advice states if you are bitten, to attend the hospital for immediate medical attention.

'Are you concerned about people adopting from abroad because it seems to be the ‘in thiNg’, are contributing to a foreign puppy farming industry.'

Honestly, no. In general rehoming from abroad, particularly Romania, isn't as easy, quick and cheap as some may think (though I'd be surprised if they genuinely do have that misconception anyway). Home checks are carried out - and whilst there was no middle man for my particular dog in the form of a back up rescue, and I obtained her direct from the rescue in Romania, I still had to undergo home checks and thorough talking to by volunteers from UK based charities from those actually experienced with Romanian rescue dogs. The rescue still asks me for updates, and I regularly provide them.

I'm far more concerned about the 2020 pandemic of backyard breeders at the moment - very concerned, as are many animal rescues and charities. If I wanted an easy dog though mind, I could have taken my pick of all manner of dogs in a 2 mile radius from people who have about as much clue about their dogs as the general public have about foreign dogs. I can guarantee regardless of the awful conditions many are raised in, I know it would have been a far easier ride.

Given the choice, an irresponsible prospective owner is far more likely to buy a puppy without doing background checks in the UK than they are torehome a puppy from Romania without doing background checks. Funnily enough, there's far less puppies available there, than there is in the UK. If someone is comitted to idiocy, they will be an idiot. There is no country bounds. A person who doesn't do their research won't do it anywhere meaning lots of irresponsible backyard breeders have been supported in the UK for a long time, but particularly this year.

'Are you aware that puppy smuggling into the U.K. is a massive money maker?'

I am aware puppy breeding in any country is a massive money maker, and if any prospective owner does not do their independant research of the place they are obtaining a dog from, they may be supporting bad practices. Seen a fair few reports of bad rescues in the UK whom have been shut down myself.

'Are you aware how concerned vets are about the volume of Romanian imports?'

Funny. Mine really weren't, and aren't. Perhaps some are concerned about irresponsible people taking these dogs on which I entirely agree with, but then I'm concerned about the German Shepherd across the road that has a severe anxiety disorder and is rarely walked, the toy dog next door that has horrendous seperation anxiety and is left to scream through the night, and the drug dealer down the road that has a new 'designer dog' every 6-8 months. Also concerned about the puppy we saved from getting hit on the road recently, only to find the owner pissed off at the dog 'because it keeps getting out'. Also concerned about a 'friends' pup, he'd been on the waiting list for years for this dog and keeps it in a crate while they are home for 6+ hours a day. The last dog they did that with ended up biting them. I was also very concerned when I had to report an aquaitance for rehoming dogs off gumtree to the point they had 5 dogs and roughly 10 cats in a tiny flat and were living off human bicuits. Dogs were walked a couple times a week and I had to report them when two cats were killed by dogs, one was left without urgent medical care, other animals had been killed by other pets, and they were still getting more.

I think I'm making my point pretty clear that vets and welfare organisations in the UK have a lot to be concerned about.

@piggywiggy123

Does the dog understand English? Or are you having to give it commands in Romanian?

Dogs understand tone of voice and a connected action more than they do words. They also respond to our body language and facial expressions much more than we give them credit for so with well trained dogs you don't have to utter a word to instruct them. Though I certainly agree they do tell the difference between particular words and it's a very good question!! (My previous dog was trained in English, mostly actions, though I did train in her a handful of non-neccessary verbal commands in Spanish).

The dog understood her name just fine, even with a completely different accent (had spoken the woman who had rescued her).

The dog wasn't really trained for anything other than to come when her name was called, when she arrived. So thankfully no Romanian words (although I am learning basic Romanian as I planned to visit before Covid), I dare say my pronunciation would have been so vastly different from native speakers though it wouldn't have made much difference! :D

All instruction is in English but with a connected action until she learned either the word itself, or the action by itself, if you see what I mean (some we like her to understand vocal commands for, some not).

Congrats on adopting a rommie. I have four and have fostered fifteen. They have a very special place in my heart.

Hello! I’m almost three months in with my first Romanian rescue! She’s the easiest dog I’ve ever had in my life but I have decades of experience so it’s hard to tell if we were just lucky to find each one another or if I’m just quite good at dogs 😀 probably a bit of both?

Something that’s helped us a LOT is that my dog lived outside in a pack so was completely raised by other dogs - as a result her communication is textbook, perfect and predictable. Try as we might to understand dogs and develop theories of how packs work and apply their rules and so on we just fuck it up because we’re not dogs.

It’s much easier to work with a dog when you haven’t got to undo anything other people have done, it’s just about providing resources such as companionship, food and warmth and establishing boundaries from day one.

I agree Ylfa I think that many Romanian dogs actually can read other dogs very well and as in my experience many UK dogs haven’t got very good dog manners, especially ones that go to busy doggy daycare or are walked in large groups.
One thing that has helped enormously is Meesh Masters Facebook group- she works with Romanian dogs and there’s a lot of resources on the page- definitely worth a read.

What medical checks were done on your dog to ensure it did not import exotic disease into the UK, concerns would be tongue worm, eye worm, leishmaniasis and erlichia for starters all of which can be transmitted to humans and are endemic in the Romanian dog population.

As a fellow Rommie owner, I would say that overseas rescue dogs are not a suitable fit with first time / inexperienced dog owners.

@Youdonut How did the rescue organisation prepare you for your dog?

How does their support look like?

What would happen if the placement falls through? Will they take the dog back?

@LeahDownTheLane

Congrats on adopting a rommie. I have four and have fostered fifteen. They have a very special place in my heart.

Thank you. Congrats on your four and many fosters! I love my rommie to bits, but they sure aren't for the faint of heart eh. Perhaps it's why they hold a special place in the heart.

@Ylfa

Hello! I’m almost three months in with my first Romanian rescue! She’s the easiest dog I’ve ever had in my life but I have decades of experience so it’s hard to tell if we were just lucky to find each one another or if I’m just quite good at dogs 😀 probably a bit of both?

Congrats on your rommie - I'm glad you're having an easy time with her and I'm sure you'll enjoy your time with her! You are lucky - and I'd like to push home the point (for the purposes of anyone reading) that this is very much NOT the norm, no matter how much of a 'dog expert' anyone is.

I've grown up with dogs my entire life, no expert though. It is definitely the most challenging, patience testing and unfamiliar experience I've had. I have dealt with aggressive and fear aggressive dogs, and nothing has patch on a Rommie.

I've had an easier time training zoo animals than with my rommie, and I really do mean that - I hope that makes the point clear for readers that most of these dogs are severe cases, and the 'easy' and 'quick settling' cases are the exception, although I have heard of a handful of cases where this is true.

The problem with dog-raised dogs is that whilst being good with other dogs is fine, pet dogs do not interact with an owner as if the owner were a dog. Dogs are very much aware we are a different species and interact with us completely differently than with other dogs. The problem with a lot of Rommies then, is they simply have no idea how to interact with us, what we expect of them, and indeed, when they do treat owners like another dog. This leads to a lot of 'raw' behaviour that dogs raised with people normally don't display.

Most Rommie dogs are incredibly fearful, hiding in some nook or crannie for weeks, coming out only to toilet and eat or drink. Then there are the severe cases where the dog is completely shut down and almost catatonic - won't eat, won't drink (for several days), will hold it's toilet for days before finally releasing it all over itself and refusing to move and is completely unresponsive.

Not every romanian dog is suited to a human home, very much exactly due to the fact of most of them being raised and living in 'packs' of other dogs - in some cases, it's compeletely against their best interests to be thrown into a human home which is sad, but very true, as they will just be completely and utterly miserable. I think that's important to bear in mind, if you are thinking of becoming a prospective owner.

Yeah I’m overlooking our first couple of weeks, not that they were dreadful in any way but she had so much to get used to - everything about being in a house, the wooden floors, the odd noises from the fridge, the tv. She loves tv so much I subscribed to dogtv.

I think it must be harder if you’re not patient or you have a lot of demands/no control over your time. I was very lucky to be able to work completely around her. You just have to be led by them, it takes as long as it takes. After day one (straight from Romania) which was only about here’s where you eat drink sleep etc, I got a harness and clipped a lead (and gps tracker) on it. You can cut the handle off so it doesn’t get caught and make sure it’s not too long so it doesn’t get tangled on stuff but there’s always something to grab. Eg if you don’t want them to climb up a wall or whatever, just a gentle tug ‘no’. It’s also now just so normal to be in a harness on a lead with me at the other end that we can go anywhere and do anything together. Travel by car was drama so every day we got in the car with something ridiculously nice and huge like a ham bone or an antler from the deer park, sat there with the engine running, moving the car around, building up our journeys etc. It took about a week to go from terrified to jumping in freely and traveling for half an hour. But there’s nothing there that’s unique to street dogs, I’ve seen in my cohort that owner expectations can be unrealistic- but you see that whenever dogs and people live together?

She would suffer if we didn’t have daily access to other dogs, this might be partly why rescue dogs are so moreish. We are also lucky that our rescue group have great local facilities such as a large very securely enclosed field (8 or 10 acres, something like that) set partly to woodland - we haven’t used it yet but what a useful resource.

Not romanian but we have recently adopted a bulgarian rescue dog, 6 weeks ago.

She is a lovely little dog for the most part. She is about ten months old. She is mostly good with the children... Still trying to teach her not to mouth them when excited. She never leaves marks on the skin or hurts them but she is slowly learning this isn't acceptable.

She also barks a lot at other dogs while out walking, presumably she has never met dogs while being on lead but again we are trying to work on this!

She spends most of the day sleeping when she is not being walked or actively played with. I think we got lucky with our dog, but I'm in an owners group on Facebook from the rescue we adopted from and there is so many positive posts on there.. And also of course some people struggling with issues.

She is our second dog and really she's actually probably easier in some ways than the dog we had from a ten week old puppy as he was very high needs!

DD has a Romanian Wotsit, and she’s an absolute gem. The puppy came through a reputable rescue charity rehousing Romanian dogs and she is now a year old. Socialisation was a bit problematic with lockdown but she’s proved to be the smartest, most trainable dog I have ever met.
My dd is very fortunate.

We did try RSPCA centres x 5 ( refused us because we had a 15 year old dog put to sleep when terminally ill 😳 and around here they won’t rehome dogs if you have had any pet put to sleep 😡), many rescues will only place if you have another dog already and no way was anything suggesting a puppy farm going to be used.

This thread is incorrectly titled - should be 'I have a Romanian Rescue Dog - AMA except for questions on the banned topics list'

My questions all relate to the banned topics as I don't know much about this.

@Tamingofthehamster

Are you not concerned that by potentially encouraging people to adopt from EasternnEurope you add to the risks of getting diseases such as rabies introduced to the U.K.?

Are you concerned about people adopting from abroad because it seems to be the ‘in thiNg’, are contributing to a foreign puppy farming industry.

Are you aware that puppy smuggling into the U.K. is a massive money maker?

Are you aware how concerned vets are about the volume of Romanian imports?

Assuming this is serious and not some GF crap from a Brexiteer.

In brief- any dog that travels has to be vet checked. Rabies not allowed etc.

Is it the 'in thing'? Possibly because some people don't like the thought of dogs living in barely-sheltered outdoor cages in sub-zero conditions, of being 'PTS' with a shovel or in a bag with oven cleaner. That's the reality of many public shelters in Eastern Europe.

Puppy smuggling, as in pedigree or Poo-mongrel puppies? Not scraggy dogcatcher gatherings.

They're not. Did you read that in the Daily Express?

For the rest of the post, for less experienced dog owners who would like to rescue, there are some brilliant charities who bring the dogs over and foster them into homes before letting families take them. They can then assess and basic-train the dogs before they go off into the world. There are some really bad 'charities' who will dump the freshly-travelled dog on your doorstep and avoid you forever after.