Reactive aggression advice

[coldplayfan]

We are inexperienced owners of a 15 month old vizsla and could do with some advice from experienced dog owners please.

She shows reactive aggression occasionally, eg today she jumped up to steal a biscuit and I told her off and when she wouldn't go away I grabbed her collar and she bit my hand and snarled.

She has bite control because she didn't break the skin but left teeth indentations which soon went and a slight graze.

I know i handled it all wrong and shouldn't have grabbed her collar but would you be worried about a dog that does this?

(We have children in the house, youngest is 6)

I'm not a behaviourist, so I'm not going to give you any concrete advice, I'm just going to ask a couple of questions and offer a few suggestions about general behaviour.

How well trained is she? How much do you give her to occupy her mind?

IME the HPR breeds (which includes Vizslas) are much, much easier to deal with if they have a clear understanding of how they are expected to behave, and are regularly given things to do which a) work their brains and b) teach them self-control.

If you put these boundaries and expectations in place, you will have a dog that you can tell to sit when it starts leaping around, and if you get their brains ticking over, they generally seem to chill out about a lot of other things. For example, work on sit, and then work on sit-stay. The sheer concentration needed to NOT move teaches them focus and self-control, and helps to deal with the boredom and frustration that these intelligent dogs can easily suffer from. Similarly, a bit of retrieve training is very good for them: it works the brain as much as the body, and again teaches focus and self-control.

I know a lot of HPRs, including Vizslas, and they are lovely, lovely dogs - but high-drive, energetic, clever and demanding. Harnessing those traits to your advantage makes them really great companions.

Just be glad it was you she bit and not a child.

Yet.

Doesn’t bode well.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

I'm not a behaviourist, so I'm not going to give you any concrete advice, I'm just going to ask a couple of questions and offer a few suggestions about general behaviour.

How well trained is she? How much do you give her to occupy her mind?

IME the HPR breeds (which includes Vizslas) are much, much easier to deal with if they have a clear understanding of how they are expected to behave, and are regularly given things to do which a) work their brains and b) teach them self-control.

If you put these boundaries and expectations in place, you will have a dog that you can tell to sit when it starts leaping around, and if you get their brains ticking over, they generally seem to chill out about a lot of other things. For example, work on sit, and then work on sit-stay. The sheer concentration needed to NOT move teaches them focus and self-control, and helps to deal with the boredom and frustration that these intelligent dogs can easily suffer from. Similarly, a bit of retrieve training is very good for them: it works the brain as much as the body, and again teaches focus and self-control.

I know a lot of HPRs, including Vizslas, and they are lovely, lovely dogs - but high-drive, energetic, clever and demanding. Harnessing those traits to your advantage makes them really great companions.

Thank you for replying. We do try to do those things but it does feel like I'm the dog entertainer, having to find ways to occupy her all the time:-(.

Would you be worried by the aggression?

@Elieza

Just be glad it was you she bit and not a child.

Yet.

Doesn’t bode well.

She has done the same to my 11 year old when she grabbed her so she has already.

I'm asking if experienced dog owners would be worried about this escalating or if this is manageable behaviour

No one should be grabbing the dog. That have shown quite clearly that they hate it. Fear?
Prevent issues. Don’t leave food where the dog can reach it.
Avoid grabbing the dog. Throw a treat where you want it to go.
Is the breeder someone who could give you advice? Have you seen a trainer at all?

@Wolfiefan

No one should be grabbing the dog. That have shown quite clearly that they hate it. Fear? Prevent issues. Don’t leave food where the dog can reach it. Avoid grabbing the dog. Throw a treat where you want it to go. Is the breeder someone who could give you advice? Have you seen a trainer at all?

Yeah I know we do generally avoid I was just pissed off with her:-(.

We did see a behaviourist and he did advise avoiding surprising her and doing more training with her.

I guess this just shocked me as it hasn't happened for a while and I just worry we're being bad parents keeping a dog who will do this if grabbed/feels threatened.

Not avoid it generally.
Avoid it TOTALLY.
Sounds like you’re the ones who need training! You need a behaviourist who can advise if it is fear. The dog guarding high value things etc.
Has it seen a vet at all? Any pain??
Room dividers or stair gates can be really useful too. Keep dog away from food.
You don’t need to entertain the dog 24/7. Teach a settle? Brain games?

I have an adolescent dog who used to do this very occasionally.

The best advice I have ever had from a trainer is that with a dog, behaviour is 90% management and 10% training. So, keep your dog out of the kitchen rather than train it to not jump up for food iyswim.
I don't know specifically what other issues you have but our dog would snap / lunge if you moved him when he was dozing so, we only let him sleep on his bed, the floor or a particular chair. He occasionally guarded toys so they were put away in a box and we only get a couple out at a time so they aren't all over the floor.
It can be a pain and everything takes longer but it has taken the stress away and as a family we understand our responsibility to help our dog get things right. If you know the triggers you can hopefully manage them. Unless your dog is unpredictably aggressive or fearful I wouldn't worry.

Very very hard to say without seeing the situation but initially I would not be concerned by what you described BUT I would look at handling it differently.

My analogy would be toddlers and if they do something you want them to stop if you grabbed them it would stop the behaviour but the toddler would yell and scream maybe in fright or surprise. If y ou called to the toddler over to you and plaed a game then they have stopped doing what you wanted them to do but also had a happy toddler.

Same with your dog by grabbing him you made him anxious and concerned and he reacted with either fear or surprise. So maybe if you had thrown treats on the floor for example or asked for a hand touch the dog would have moved away in a low stress way.

So it would follow that if he does not feel anxious or surprised there will not be a need for him to react like he did on this occasion

I would be worried about this escalating, particularly in view of the dcs. Trying to persuade a 6 year old not to do something with a dog who she usually is comfortable around is very difficult and it is only a matter of her acting on instinct and the dog reacting for a much more serious incident to occur.

I think you need to talk to a behaviourist again, to make absolutely sure your dcs are safe. Maybe try a different one as ‘needs more training’ sounds a bit dismissive to me, but that may just be lack of detail.

I also think you need to keep the dog and kids separate as much as possible.

Have you taught a leave command or ‘not yours’ that would have worked in this scenario. The main problem I have with this is in the heat of the moment remembering to use the commands.

This is probably manageable behaviour, but only if you put the effort into proper training.

The dog sounds scared and confused. No-one should be grabbing it, being pissed off isn't an excuse.

You need to work on building proper bonded trust. If you feel like a dog entertainer, it sounds like you're playing, not training to me. Go back to the behaviourist or trainer, do multiple sessions and get a proper training plan in place.

Without basic self-control (on both sides) you're going to struggle so work on this first. You can do this whole waiting for an appointment. Put a treat on the floor, retreat slowly while telling your dog to wait, keep doing it over and over, every day. If he doesn't wait, he doesn't get the treat. You'll get to learn his body language and know when he's going to move, and he'll learn that "wait" is a good command. My 6 year old ds does this training with our dog, get your kids to join in too.

Hope this helps.

Our ddog hated her collar grabbed. Everyone knew not to.. Except dd's bf. She bit his hand... Didn't break the skin. Her bad behavior wasn't properly addressed as a dpuppy. 10 years of tiptoeing round her unpredictablity.. Seek professional advice ASAP. Especially with dc. Our dc were never left alone /allowed to enjoy having her
.. Bloody shame and I hold my hands up to that. Train train train or rehome...

Better advice is to avoid the heat of the moment times!
Eg I feed my two dogs separately. I want to avoid food aggression. If we are out and they come back for a treat then I use the name of the dog I’m going to feed first. Then the other. And I make eye contact with that dog! May sound daft. But they are giant hounds. And if they decided to scrap over food there could be blood on the walls.
They aren’t allowed in the kitchen when I’m handling food.
Food is eaten in the dining room. Dogs kept out.

Thinking more about it. I really would get in a good trainer _ this is not behaviourist work just a good trainer.

A couple of 121 sessions either on zoom or socially distanced outside depending on tier. They would be able to explain why your dog does things and how he is feeling and then give you simple strategies to use.

It will give your more confidence and make you feel much happier and also you will see results guickly

Imagine someone who is already angry at you then grabs your shirt collar?
How would you react?

Aggression aside, we had a food obsessed rescue dog. From the minute we got him home he learned that his food was in his bowl once a day at the same time. Treats only given during training.

No other food was his AT ALL.

If we ate, he was put in another room. We told the kids no eating snacks near the dog. No begging or sniffing around allowed. Eventually he totally ignored any food that wasn’t his.

If your pup is jumping up at this age and has reaction like this when pulled away, then manage the jumping first by removing the incentive (food). Keep her on a lead in the house if necessary if she’s jumping up at other things so you can swiftly remove her.

Thank you so much to everyone who has replied, I really appreciate it and I've read all the replies carefully.

I'm taking from them the overall feeling that this is behaviour that can be managed by avoidance and by focussing a lot more on training.

I think that we have spent too much time playing with her and not enough time training but we will change that and focus much more on the training.

I will arrange another session with the trainer/behaviourist too.

Do you have a specialist HPR trainer near you? Or an HPR gundog club? They will understand the traits and drives and give you more to work with.

A settle command is really useful. I've just spent the better part of an hour working on one with a gundog puppy... Most training takes patience and consistency.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

Do you have a specialist HPR trainer near you? Or an HPR gundog club? They will understand the traits and drives and give you more to work with.

A settle command is really useful. I've just spent the better part of an hour working on one with a gundog puppy... Most training takes patience and consistency.

I'll ask around thanks for the advice.

If this was my dog after telling her no and her not leaving I wouldn’t have grabbed her collar but I would have walked into her and basically forced her out the room and shut the door.
No idea if that would have been the ‘correct’ thing to do or not.

But I also have to be honest and say that if I had children, she would be gone.
I just wouldn’t tolerate snarling and biting, even if inhibited, not with kids around.

If I had no kids I would monitor the situation, do some counter conditioning around being handled by the collar but if it happened again I would get rid.

I'm afraid the snarling and biting would really concern me - that's more than a warning - she's saying she's extremely unhappy and uncomfortable with what you're doing and needs you to stop.

Have a look at the ladder of aggression. I suspect there are lots of warning signs you're missing and ignoring, meaning she has no choice (in her eyes) but to escalate her behaviour to snarling and then to biting. If you continue to ignore her warning signs she will eventually bite hard and not use her inhibition, and my worry would be that it happens to one of your children.

In the meantime, keep the dog out of the room if anyone is eating and do not ever grab her by her collar again. I would actually take the collar off indoors so you don't get tempted and grab it out of habit.

OP Have you owned the dog since a puppy.
Also do you use a dog walker or day care. The reason I'm asking there will be a trigger and it may not have been you. I would advise a behaviourist but please google their qualifications first. There are so many "Internet" qualifications floating about now. You are better off with a 1&1 behaviourist who will see your dog and its behaviour in person. I personally would do zoom. Depending on tiers you may be able to see one. Don't grab the dogs collar one of mine had an issue which is sorted and it was poorly trained dog care staff that caused it.

Sorry should say *wouldn't do zoom.

Also, @coldplayfan, have you contacted the breeder? If I'd bred your dog, I would want to know about these issues, and also the breeder might have some advice or know of a trainer.