Aggressive rescue Romanian dog

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Not sure anyone will be about and I know some people don't agree with rehoming Romanian dogs (for which I could do without a flaming) I've had a Romanian Mioritic shepherd dog for a week, the rescue told me he had lived in a home but judging by how thin he is and the fact that the vet told me that most of his teeth are broken due to eating rocks I'm starting to doubt this. He's 8, he's mouthed from day 1 but he's gradually getting worse to the point he bit my son tonight (he's 19 and 6 foot not a child. He didn't break the skin but it was done with intent and hurt. He spends lots of the day barking and growling for no reason and nothing will stop him. At first he would just mouth arms and we would give a firm no and turn our back on him which worked for 3 days then he started biting the back of your legs. I have had dogs for 40 years (including very large ones) and done lots of obedience work but I'm starting to be at a loss with this one. He has started to mob me at times mouthing and though I've never been scared of a dog he's now making me nervous. We make sure he always has food in his bowl (not something I would normally do but he's been deprived) He's walked for 1-3 hours a day.

Fellow dog owner here, just wanted to say I'm sorry this sounds stressful for everyone including the dog. Do you think the rescue will be open over the break to help?

What is he like during the day? Does he sleep and rest? And walks are ok? Is there a set time or room for the biting?

Do you think it's attention biting? Or to do with his breed type, is his breed for nipping cattle, or herding? Guarding.

I'm just thinking I'd maybe be sat reading up about what he's designed to do and he's stressed so will revert to breed traits maybe?

Hi
Not sure if my first reply posted. Apologies if i have posted twice.
Have you given him a chance to decompress? It sounds like its all too much ,too soon for him, and hes overstimulated and overwhelmed.I would give him plenty of space and lots of calm. Let him get used to his surroundings and your family, and figure it all out for himself, and in his time.I would also give him a break from his walks right now....up to 3 hours a day for him is a lot. Do lots of enrichment exercises with him. That will get his brain working, and will tire him out just as much as walk would, if not more. He is probably stressed and his "spoons" are most likely maxed out and he needs time for them to come down, then, when you do go back out for walks, build it up slowly and give him lots of sniffy walks as opposed to off lead running around. let him get used to the area. There are lots of facebook groups that can offer a lot of help..Reactive dogs UK is full of advice and friendly support. Its worth joining and have a good read of their files, and even ask for help within the group. Time is your friend. Good Luck

(The 3 Days, 3 Weeks, 3 Month Rule
In the first 3 days)

Your new dog will be overwhelmed with his new surroundings. He will not be comfortable enough to be himself. Don’t be alarmed if he doesn’t want to eat for the first couple of days, many dogs don’t eat when they are stressed. He may shut down and want to curl up in his crate or under the table. He may be scared and unsure what is going on. Or he may be the opposite and test you to see what he can get away with, kind of like a teenager.
After 3 weeks,

he’s starting to settle in, feeling more comfortable, and realizing this really may be his forever home. He has figured out his environment and getting into the routine that you have set. He lets his guard down and may start showing his real personality. Behavior issues may start showing, this is your time to be a strong pack leader and show him what is right and wrong.

Please avoid any behaviour advice that mentions pack leader/hierarchy or dominance/submission theory.
Contact your vet again and ask for referral to a veterinary behaviourist who is correctly qualified. Do not take advice from random, unqualified people on the internet however well meaning they may be. This sounds like an escalating situation. You may want to look at the ladder of aggression. Get professional help now.

Ugh.
You bought a livestock guardian breed FFS, a guard dog in other words and of dodgy upbringing and probably breeding to boot.

I would say to return him to the ‘rescue’ but they rarely, if ever, offer any proper help and from what I’ve heard can get quite nasty with owners who can’t cope with their mismatched dogs so you’ll have to try a British rescue.

KARAS may be of help, they are specialist rescue for Anatolians/Kangals (another herding breed) but may be able to help.
They are the only livestock guardian specific rescue I’m aware of but there probably are more out there.

I've just googled the breed and omg they are gorgeous! You have done a wonderful thing giving him a good home.

I don't have any particular advice except to echo earlier posters. Get him thoroughly checked out by a vet, keep everything calm around him. Consult a behaviouralist early so problems don't build up.

When I had problems with my rescue dog barking and biting (usually out on a walk when he got overexcited) I was advised to bring a soft toy with me. Carrying the toy in their mouths means they can't bark/bite because they don't want to drop it, and it can be calming for a dog, apparently because it presses against their soft pallet.

Those dogs need to form bonds with their family at a young age. Of course a lot will have been adopted as older dogs, but if they've come from a place of neglect then you're looking at an uphill battle with a dog who is bread to not trust strangers. You've maybe been taken in by their reputation as loyal and protective, but that's if they've had obedience training from the start and bonded with their family. At this age, with his background, he's dangerous. You need to work with a behaviourist, and be very very careful around the dog for now.

They are absolutely gorgeous dogs.

Op, it’s only been a week. I’m going to be blunt, but taking a rescue from another country that you’ve never even met, takes time and work. You need to put the work in, spend time with the dog, making sure it feels secure, comfortable, safe. Then move to the training. Let it settle in its own time.

The dog is unsettled, it’s scared and it doesn’t feel safe. It’s had a hard life. It wouldn’t be getting rescued if it didn’t. You say you’ve lots of experience, but I’m not sure what you’ve lots of experience with, because if it was rescues like this then you’d know it takes months, not a week.

If you’re unable to put in that time, and don’t know how to do it, then you need to rehome the poor dog to another rescue.

This is why I no longer donate to any "rescues". So many are incredibly irresponsible and waste resources on and adopt out clearly dangerous dogs like this. Immoral and unfair to the community they live in.

Without stating the obvious he's clearly been massively neglected and has potentially strong ingrained unsocialised, and undomesticated dog traits. I had a rescue lurcher that hadn't even clapped eyes on a collar and leash, let alone walked on one. Lots of trying to jump out any open window, food was eaten so quickly to the point he'd cough it up, digging and ripping behaviour of any soft furniture, howling if left alone, sitting depressed but terrified if in a room with us, marking everywhere but also no knowledge of doors to ask to outside, no idea about being petted, nipping if anyone petted him. I'd honestly say it took 4mths before we got past some of the above, and some we never did. Crating helped massively in that we put blankets over the top and the door was never shut on the cage, it gave him a safe space. Feeding we'd drop the dish and move away, high value treats to reward with, extremely low level contact also helped as it gave him time to decide if he wanted to approach us or not. Unfortunately for some dogs they're just beyond the 'nice warm bed, plenty of food, positive attention rehab'. I'd try with the low contact approach, and speak to a behaviourist if you can.

Maybe he'd be better as an outdoor dog?

We have a Romanian rescue also, and just to second what someone else said, it’s definitely worth contacting the rescue for advice. Ours had an affiliated behaviourist, who called us back the same day for a free session. We didn’t know about this when we first adopted him.
The other thing we found that helped most was sending him to a dog daycare a couple days a week. The one we use specialises in rescue dogs and has a couple acres for them to run in all day if they want. Our dog loved dogs, is scared of people, and would come back more confident and exhausted from all of the running and playing. He settled down after 3-4 months. Good luck, please do ask for advice from a behaviourist. Hopefully your rescue will help also

It's only been a week so don't be too harsh on him or yourself. You have adopted a highly intelligent, working dog. Be clear in your communications with him, keep him off furniture, feed him last etc etc and do lots of short bursts of training. He is possibly mixed up between being the guardian and being the guarded ... so going from bossy to subjugated. He has to fit in with the family and know he is not in charge now, you are the protector.

I meet one of these dogs regularly and they had problems initially. Took the owners a good wee while to get him settled now he’s great. Early days for you and your dog.

Did the rescue give advice about settling him in?

I'm surprised you're already taking him out for walks. My neighbours got a Romanian rescue dog in the summer (supposedly a pet that had been abandoned due to Covid). It was weeks before they took him out for a walk. The first weeks they spent at home, and lots of time in the garden to get him used to his new surroundings. Even as early as 6am they'd be sitting in the garden with the dog. And they had a behaviourist visit them at home.

Hopefully your dog trying to bite is stress and not ingrained aggression. Does he seem familiar with a domestic environment? If he was a working dog he would have been in a kennel or living outside, and not have a lot of contact with humans. Similar if he was a street dog.

Poor boy sounds incredibly stressed , surely with a dog that size if he had intended to bite he’d have bitten ie broken the skin . Obviously if you don’t feel you wish to persevere that’s fair enough but if he were mine I would be not walking him until he’d settled , I’d be contacting a behaviourist and I would basically be love bombing him ( in a dog appropriate way ) .

We’ve got two Romanian dogs, one of whom is an elderly miriotic shepherd dog. She is the sweetest gentlest dog (both are), we have been lucky. They are highly nervous though and anything unusual stresses them. But it took her a long time to settle and trust us. You are looking at 7 months not 7 days here at minimum. This stuff really takes time. Look up Meesh Masters on FB who specialises in Romanian dog behaviours: www.facebook.com/groups/TheDogsPointofView/?ref=share

These dogs are traumatised, abused and have complex ptsd. They are different breed wise to UK dogs. They had to select for strong characters to survive. Romanian dogs are more dog like than our heavily domesticated UK breeds. They even play more roughly with each other.

Miriotic dogs are lovely, guard dogs for herding livestock, bred to mistrust strangers, protect their family, bark at strange sounds and fend off wolves and bears in the mountains. Even my gentle elderly dog (16 approx) who pads slowly around will chase away cats like a rocket if she sees one. They are a highly prized breed in Romania and unlike many dogs there they have kept the bloodline quite pure. The miriotic dog showing videos on youtube are something to behold (and generally show you how the context these dogs come from -chained up outside to guard or running with a herd).

As a new dog in your home I think you are doing too much. Over stimulation. You need to give him a quiet safe corner which is never disturbed and basically leave him to observe you so he realises he can trust you. Could take months. Keep stimulation to a minimum, not approached by visitors etc. Don’t approach him, contact should be on his terms and take it slow! It took about two years to get our old miriotic dog to bond fully with us. But she has. And hard, she is very devoted now. It is not easy but it is so worth it. These are beautiful and loyal dogs. Please seek help, he has been through so much in his short life and you are all he has. Tap into the online community of people who own and rehabilitate these dogs. If it is too much, please find him a more experienced home who can help. Anyway, you are not alone and we are out there

Way too soon to give up on him, surely you knew you weren't going to be in for an easy ride? A relative of mine rescued a neglected dog. It took him a good 6 months to start to settle in.

Oh and I do recommend finding a behaviourist who knows Romanian dogs, why I recommended Meesh above (she has free online resources too) these dogs are different.

the-dogs-point-of-view.teachable.com/p/the-new-adopters-guide-to-settling-your-romanian-rescue-dog?fbclid=IwAR36sKFBFuCmPdA3RuLbr9HSumzFodJ-Hn5bfBg7Mg7h8IOg9JCmJ75Oz-I

Useful tips

Sorry to bombard but I realise the link above requires you to give an email. Pertinent info below and in link here:

“FOOD & WATER:
Make sure they have access to fresh water in a place where ideally they don’t have to turn their back on a room to drink, so not in a corner. If they feel anxious about their surroundings they may be reluctant to drink if they can’t see where everyone is while doing so.Offer them food shortly after they arrive but for the first few days at least, maybe longer, feed little and often rather than big meals. Ideally scatter their food over a small area to prevent them wolfing it down and to encourage them to engage in naturally calming behaviours like snuffling and sniffing. Obviously feed them separately to resident dogs.
TIME, SPACE & PATIENCE:
When your dog arrives they will be in stress overload. Their Cortisol and Adrenaline levels will be through the roof. They will need at least a few days for these to even begin to come down so please do make these first few days very calm. Most dogs sleep a lot during the first 24 hours and it’s important to give them the opportunity and a safe place to allow them to do that. This alone can prevent all sorts of problem behaviours in the first few days. Make sure they have a place they can be that is away from lots of hubub and if necessary give them separate time from resident dogs to have a break and process all that has happened to them. If they are fearful when they arrive and don’t wish to interact then leave them to choose their space and don’t keep encouraging them to make friends. They will come around in their own time but if you keep trying to make them do things you could increase their anxiety and make the process of them settling take much longer.
PREVENT OVERWHELM:
Avoid having lots of visitors to the house during the first week. Let your new arrival settle, get used to their new environment and get used to you before you start introducing more new people. Visitors tend to want to excessively fuss because they will know you rescued this dog from an awful situation. All this attention from so many strangers can cause many of these dogs to feel anxious. Let your dog choose to interact with any visitors when they do come, but if they don’t want to then leave them be and ask your visitors to ignore them. You should be able to tell how comfortable they’re feeling from their body language. If they’re happily leaping around your new visitors, then it’s more likely they will enjoy a fuss, but if they’re hesitant and unsure, it is REALLY IMPORTANT that you let your dog set the pace for new introductions. If you try to encourage them to make friends, you can actually MAKE them scared of new people – and this can take months to change once established.
SAFETY:
Keep them on a lead, preferably a long line in the garden for the first few days, some dogs can be very panicked by all they’ve been through & their new surroundings and you want to be sure they have no intention of trying to escape. This is especially important and a very real possibility if your new rescue dog was a street dog. Some of these dogs have been reported to jump 6ft fences and if you have any gaps in your fencing, you can be sure your Romanian dog will find them!”

thedogspov.com/recommended-dos-donts-settling-romanian-rescue-dog/

nickbenger.com/how-to-acclimatize-foreign-rescue-dog/

I think the key thing to remember is that he is scared and stressed. The barking, growling and mouthing show you this. Remember growling in dogs isn’t aggression, it is a warning he is close to his limits and needs space. He is asking for space. A truly aggressive dog would’t give you a warning first. He would prefer not to escalate.

Put yourself in his shoes. He has gone through a long journey and ended up in an unfamiliar house (if he even ever lived inside before) in an unfamiliar country, with total strangers who may be threatening, you make strange mouth sounds he doesn’t recognise and he cannot choose to leave. He doesn’t know he is safe. You need to let him realise that he is safe and loved. He needs time to come down off an adrenalin and cortisol high, he will be exhausted and needs to sleep like the dead for a long time. He will do this once he knows is safe. 7 days is nothing, give him space and time.

You have done a really gold thing in giving him a home. He has clearly had a hard life, bless him. It will take him a while to learn that he is safe and loved, he can't just forget any trauma that he has suffered in a week. He probably won't have had much affection either so to start with he won't understand it or know how to respond/how to ask for it etc etc. Don't give up though. If you work with him over the next few months, he will come around. Romanian rescues aren't a rarity in the UK, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a forum online with plenty of people who have had similar difficulties to start with. Maybe try contacting a behaviourist/trainer who has experience of working with similar rescues too. Best of luck

I agree with all the posters saying to stop walking him and give him time to decompress. I also think that you should speak to a qualified behaviourist (someone who is a member of the APBC).

In the meantime, does he have somewhere safe to escape to where he won’t be bothered?

You say He spends lots of the day barking and growling for no reason and nothing will stop him. but there is probably a reason in his mind. It might help to keep a diary of when he barks and growls so that you can look for a pattern and avoid doing anything that makes him feel like he has to growl. A diary will also help the behaviourist assess his behaviour.

It’s not clear from your posts if you have been punishing him for growling. By punishing I don’t necessarily mean physically punishing him. Raised voices can be punishing, especially for an already nervous dog. If you have, please stop. A growl is a warning and the last thing that you want to do is suppress the warning.