Horrible Vet Experience - what now?

[BirdsRoundandRound]

Please be gentle as I'm feeling very upset right now and genuinely want to do the right thing.

DDog is 5 month old cocker, lovely temperament usually. We've been working with a trainer and she is coming on well with recall and other training. She was a bit bitey in play for a while but her teeth are falling out and this is calming down, we've redirected her to toys and she now tends to come to us with toys tail wagging instead of biting my ankles!

Anyway, she's been v ill in the last few days, vomiting up food, diarrhoea, she didn't keep anything down for over 24 hours which was worrying so obviously took her to the vets. In the waiting area she vomited and was clear she has worms, which is the cause. Because of covid, the vet situation is difficult and requires the dog going up some stairs to the vet without the owner. She's been a few times before and been carried up no problem. I've also taken her to the pet shop below as a positive experience, but clearly haven't been able to desensitise her to the whole process as we can't go up with her.

Apparently (DH was there with her) this time she was not happy to be picked up and was wriggling away, so the vet pulled her up the stairs on her leash, she was clearly terrified. She then had an abdominal exam which I assume hurt because it was so swollen.

Today (2 days later) we took her back for a checkup and she was very nervous going in. She wagged and lay on her back with the vet came down and petted her, but when she took the lead to try and take her up she became aggressive and snapped at her. In the end I had to hold her and she was examined downstairs, she was shaking the whole time.

The vet said the behaviour was an issue and to see a behaviourialist, as she's becoming reactive in new environments. I was very upset as never seen her react aggressively ever before.

We have a trainer who I'm trying to get hold of, but spoke to another behavourialist on the phone when I got back who said the treatment at the vet sounded awful, to get a new vet, and she must have been terrified to react in such an extreme way, but obviously we need to have her observed in other circumstances to make sure we are not missing cues that mean it might happen in different situations.

Just wanted to hear some kind words on this - clearly we will do what it takes now, but surely if she was scared and in pain and the vet was making no effort to alleviate this then it's not surprising she had a fear reaction? How worried do we need to be that this is going to manifest itself in an ongoing way?

She's probably a bit "undersocialised" - not your fault as pandemic gets in the way - so won't have been to visit many unfamiliar/scary places with you.

The behaviourist sounds like they've given some very sensible advice - I'd be switching vets too.

I wouldn't worry too much about it becoming an issue in other situations - the one place my dog has to be muzzled is the vets because he knows full well that room is the one place in the world where they stick needles into him and prod him in unfun ways (DDog has a variety of other issues, and can be rather highly strung in general, but biting strangers other than the vet isn't one)

In a nutshell, puppy has gone
"ouch"
"ouch, get off!"
"ouch, seriously, get off me NOW"
"OUCH, FUCK OFF AND DON'T TOUCH ME AGAIN" which is entirely understandable when puppy has no idea what's going on, or that it's for his benefit.

However, you don't want it to become an ingrained behaviour at the vets, so I'd seek a new one and tell the new vets why you're switching (ask for kid gloves and preferably for puppy to be given treats by the vet!)

PS it's worth knowing that canine behaviour is something that isn't really covered at vet school - often it's not covered at all - hence you often get a load of claptrap talked about behaviour by vets.

I'm sorry you have had such a bad experience, my dog is a rescue and is scared of new places, he was actually ok at the vets pre covid as we could go with him but he has really struggled since (he cut his side and needed stitches and check ups). My vet actually does desensitisation sessions where I can phone up and they will take him for a wander around the vets and then bring him back out to me. (They suggested this as I actually couldn't physically get him out of the car this last time and had to re park the car somewhere else and walk him there). They ended up taking the next patient in to give me time to calm him down and get him more settled. I do send my boy in with a soft muzzle as I am worried that being scared and hurt could cause him to snap, maybe that's an option?
Are there any other vets nearby if you are not happy with their service?

I’d be switching vets too in this case. Unless there was another choice of vet at the practice. I’m all for vets being safe and not getting bitten, and I know they’re having a tough time with Covid issues, but this doesn’t sound like it was well handled.

thank you both, Avocados that's very reassuring and makes a lot of sense. We will definitely switch vets, and probably call up our existing and explain why!

random - we have socialised her as best we can and been to lots of outdoor settings and (when it was allowed) other houses, to the pub etc and she was fine. She's super friendly with all humans, really friendly with dogs (occasionally scared when it's a big dog but she just runs back to me). But no, I can't think of another equivalent scary place she has been to.

There are other practices so we can hopefully reregister.

I think the issue will be with the vet set up itself even if we do see another vet - as clearly being dragged up the stairs has made her not want to go anywhere near them!

The desensitisation sessions sound like a really good idea, I'll call a few and see if they do them.

Poor puppy

Ddog had a very bad reaction to the vet when he was about 6 months old. The very suggested he had major issues and wasn’t safe to be around our DC. He hadn’t actually bitten but had lunged to maybe he would have if he had made contact to be fair
We got a behaviourist in who did some tests and said apart from ddog not being too keen on DS we didn’t have an issue but suggested some strategies going forward anyway.
Ddog is absolutely fine, not keen on the vet and used to grumble and she did muzzle him once . We changed vet from the one where he reacted and he’s been fine since, went for his vax 2 weeks ago and was Avery good boy even though I had to wait outside.

The fact that the vet pulled her up the stairs on her leash would be enough for me to change vets. That is unacceptable. Our vet takes things so slowly, and gives out treats etc to reassure any dogs who aren’t feeling comfortable.

The vet sounds like the problem, not your dog.

It’s pretty common for dogs to be scared/reactive at the vets.... that’s why normally you take them to go get weighed loads (And other fairly Innes every visits) and just build up positive experiences - because otherwise they only go there for unpleasant things.

I have a rescue who is terrified at the vets and had to be muzzled etc. She was taken in by the dog walker with a stick jammed in her mouth when she was about 1 and wouldn't let anyone near her. They had to use a grabber eventually and then sedated her. I had a call from a vet basically reading me the riot act about her "behaviour" and that I had to get a behaviourist etc. They gave me details for one who charged £400 per session! I tried to desensitise her myself, took her in regularly, lots of treats etc then the next time she was there "officially", the vet came barrelling out of the consultation room loudly and scared the shit out of her. She was muzzled by them and I had to hold her down. I was given another speech about behaviourists and the vet clearly didn't believe me when I said she had never been reactive or aggressive in any other circumstance! All a bit of a nightmare and now she's just terrified of the vets and I couldn't muzzle train her because the vet jammed one on with no preamble. So yeah, vets don't always help.

I've just accepted that she will hate the vets now and I do muzzle her and make visits as short as possible. The last vaccination she had was in the car park. Some dogs will just hate the vets and be absolutely fine in all other circumstances.

She sounds like she was absolutely terrified. Dogs don’t understand what is happening at the vet, so it’s not entirely unusual for them to growl or act aggressively, particularly if in extreme pain. My vet (as standard practice) will put a soft muzzle on my dogs briefly for any close examination / prod/ etc if they are in pain. Just as a precaution for their protection. Which I understand. They obviously just accept some dogs might react in such circumstances. Your dog is young so has less experience of different surroundings / experiences etc so I can understand why she would find that experience terrifying and bewildering. I agree with the others though, you need a different vet.
I doubt this indicates any generalised aggressive behaviour. So I wouldn’t be spending money on £400/hr behaviourists just yet. Though I’d suggest slowly muzzle training her so that you can use one for vet visits just as a precaution.

If your trainer is anything like ours, they’ll probably swear when you tell them what has happened. It’s really hard at the minute to build up positive experiences with the vets because you can’t just pop in, get them weighed, ask the receptionist to give them a fuss and then come home. I’d be looking to find a new vets, probably one where the exam rooms aren’t upstairs so the dog only has to be coaxed along one level. When things open up more, go in frequently, just get her weighed or practice some training in the waiting room. We would pop in as part of our walk every few weeks. She’s had a negative experience now, so she might never be happy at the vets but hopefully she’ll be less reactive with some positive experiences. At the moment, a new practice might meet you in the car park, give her a fuss and a treat. That’ll help build up positive experiences there. You also need to be calm about the experience too because if you get anxious about the visit, so will the dog. I know that’s easier said than done, especially after she had a bad experience.

I am so sorry that happened to your poor girl. The vet sounds awful. I know they are stressed and busy with covid, but there’s no excuse for treating any dog like that, let alone a pup. Most of my experience with vets has been positive, but every now and again I come across one who is no-doubt excellent clinically, but has absolutely no empathy for the animals they treat and act as if they are doing you a favour treating your dog. There are good and bad in every walk of life and I’m sure you’ll be able to find one that can help get your poor girl over this.

Our vets do familiarisation visits, where, ordinarily, you take them in, they get a walk around, lots of fuss from the receptionist and vet nurses, given treats and then go home. You can also take them in for regular weigh-ins, just to the waiting room and again, the receptionists all give them a fuss and some treats. Both on mine practically drag me inside when they have an appointment, despite one of them having to have monthly bloods and regularly needing to be stitched up as a youngster. (Lurcher with faulty brakes!). With Covid things are harder, but I believe you can still ask the vet nurse to take them in just for a weigh in, fuss and treat. There are lots of similarly lovely vets out there, so you should be able to move to one that will help rebuild her confidence. It’s in their interests if they want your custom and by getting it right, they are hopefully going to get at least 12 years plus, if not longer, of your patronage.

20+ years ago I had a pup who was traumatised by a trainee vet when he went in for scans. Literally went in a happy daft puppy and came out a nervous wreck, so bad he was terrified of men afterwards and we had to do a lot of behavioural work with him. He was a very large breed and had to be muzzled at the vets from then on. I really wish we’d been with the vets we’re with now back then.

I'd change vets to one with a more practical layout, also flat access so no stairs.

Covid will cause so much trouble for puppies losing out on casual interaction / planned "puppy parties" in the vet clinics.

It's hardly surprising that a dog who's had a bad experience, being ill, poked prodded etc will dislike the location next time. My DC2 is really stressed around medical stuff as basically he's only been stabbed there and hasn't seen grownups doing routine non ouchy stuff in the surgery.

Another vote for changing vets here. I would speak to the new practice on the phone and explain the situation, then you can gauge how helpful they’re likely to be - the pandemic limits what they can do with regard to little trips in and so on, but you can get a feel for their attitude. When you need to take her in I would go armed with high value treats and hand them over to the vet to feed to her, to try and start to build a positive association. And when things open up again then you can start taking little trips in to get her used to it and build some happy feelings.

If you’re in Norfolk I’d recommend my practice, they’re very kind and come armed with treats. Ddog refuses to leave the consultation room until he’s been paid for his time, and knows exactly where the biscuit tin is to be found as well...!

There's an instagram account I follow and the owner shared how the one year old pup became terrified of the vet and was too distressed to go in. They switched vets and shared loads of updates on how they tried to desensitise. They regularly went through the vet grounds and up to the front door on walks so she'd get used to the surroundings. There was also a video of them playing and training on vet's garden area and sounded like the vet was very accommodating as the staff let her come in to reception to say hello, lots of patting etc to let her get used to surroundings before she had to go for a proper appointment. It will obviously depend what the Covid restrictions are at the time but the vet sounded absolutely fantastic and so accommodating, the latest update being pup went in to the vet without issue for a proper appointment. Appreciate it might not be a possibility but thought worth a mention. I know my vet is operating a closed surgery so we didn't even get in the building this week and had to hand over pup in the car park.

Appalling way for the vet to treat a sick, frightened puppy and it'll stay with your puppy for the rest of her life that that is a frightening place.

I had to take my dog to the vet several times during the first lockdown. They were extremely busy but every patient and owner was treated with kindness and patience.

I would most definitely not be going back there.

I wouldn’t be pleased with the vet at all and would find a new one.

Did you not have your puppy on a regular worming schedule?

Agree with PP about worming. You clearly can’t avoid certain issues, and needing vet trips. But you can certainly minimise risks by taking responsible preventive action for many potential issues

Not all vets are preventing owners coming in. I’ve been going into mine since May including the last lockdown. The vet even came to my house last week to pts my cat😞. Might be worth asking around . Just have to wear a mask and there is a screen up which was a bit confusing for my cat but better than me not being there. I really think they should be letting owners in now.

My vets are taking pets from you outside the building entrance and asking you to stay in the car park with your mobile on hand so that they can talk through any issues with you. I’m very lucky that mine loves the vets. I’d expect the vet to be used to dogs being afraid to go into the building even with their owner.

I’m sorry about your cat. It was good of your vet to come out to you to make things less stressful for them

Personally I would change the vets. I did this a few months ago when I witnessed the vet dragging my dog across the floor on his stomach. My new vets is fantastic I wish I had changed earlier. Covid is not an excuse to man handle animals. Not many animals would happily walk off with a stranger.

I have a reactive rescue dog and working with a behaviourist for him has taught me a lot. When your dog went on her back (even if wagging at the time) this could have been a sign that she was anxious about the experience and the new person coming towards her. If the vet understood anything about dogs she should not have petted her at that point- it probably made matters worse. In your dogs eyes she was worried about what was happening anyway and when the scary person (vet) came towards her she tried to show that she was not a threat (in the hopes that the scary person would move on). Scary person then went in her personal space but she held it together. Then scary person tried to drag her away from her human so she had no choice but to snap to make it clear she wanted to stay with her human.

Covid has been a nightmare for dog training. Pre Covid we were working really well on de-sensitising Ddog to the vet (amongst other things) doing small visits etc. Our female vet (because Ddog is scared of men) was amazing- she totally ignored him in the first few visits and we worked up to him approaching her until he eventually allowed her to touch him . Unfortunately we had to have an emergency visit a few weeks ago and had to see a male vet who ignored all our warnings about his behaviour issues and just went to grab his collar. If he had not been muzzled it would have ended very badly. Having a vet who understands and is sympathetic to dog behaviour makes a huge difference.

Could you ask your trainer/behaviourist to recommend a vet in your area who will work with you on this? (btw, if you need a behaviourist as opposed to a standard trainer they are not all £400 per hour- ours is no where near that expensive but is exceptional)