How would I go about breeding from our working cocker?

[PaperTowels]

She's five years old - is that too old? She's pedigree, registered with the Kennel Club.

Who do you include in that Othering?

@Othering they are the low lives I'm referring to! Interbreeding and proud of it. Get better jobs you losers.

@eurochick

I find the mumsnet pet pages baffling sometimes. They are full of dog and cat lovers who have dogs and cats but are hugely hostile to anyone suggesting they might like to get a pet or, good forbid, have a litter from a good quality animal.

(And having tried myself to adopt a cat from a shelter and given up because they made it so difficult I don't buy the "just adopt" line.)

The thing is... anyone planning a litter from a good quality animal, isn’t on mumsnet asking an easily googleable question.

Because to know you’ve got a good quality dog - you’re involved in something with that dog, you’d have had that conversation with other people involved in that, not be asking on a parenting site.

Otherwise what you’ve got is your pet, that of course you think is the best dog ever, and is probably lovely - but realistically probably isn’t a quality animal.

I mean, yeah, some responses are overly harsh to someone who’s just going, my dog is great, wonder if it’s feasible to breed from her and have another?

But the point that breeding isn’t something most people really should be doing with their pet stands.

It’s a lot more complicated and involved to do it right than most people imagine... and on top of that, it’s actually not a pleasant thing and a potentially dangerous thing to put your bitch through.

This thread is a bit of a trainwreck but I just wanted to add that the BVA health schemes were suspended during lockdown and as a consequence there are delays to some of the services; add in some vets undertaking only essential/emergency work during the latest lockdown period and it could take significant time as well as the usual amount of money to achieve the full gamut of health tests.

Health testing does not appear to be popular or frequent in some working gundog circles and they also, IMHO, have an issue with popular sire syndrome so it could be tricky to find an appropriate sire.

I also agree with the last poster in the sense that if a bitch is good enough and has achieved things as a working dog you would have probably already had this conversation with other people in the community.

And look, I abhor indiscriminate breeding and profiteering from companion animals as much as the next person on this board but you will surely catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

they are the low lives I'm referring to! Interbreeding and proud of it.
You might want to check back, squirrel - nobody is advocating inbreeding.

But the point that breeding isn’t something most people really should be doing with their pet stands.
I'd agree to a point, Tabulah, but ... show and working breeders do not produce enough puppies to even vaguely sate the puppy market, and the gap is filled by puppy farms.

@eurochick

I find the mumsnet pet pages baffling sometimes. They are full of dog and cat lovers who have dogs and cats but are hugely hostile to anyone suggesting they might like to get a pet or, good forbid, have a litter from a good quality animal.

(And having tried myself to adopt a cat from a shelter and given up because they made it so difficult I don't buy the "just adopt" line.)

I don't think it's bizarre at all. Breeding dogs (or cats) responsibly isn't cheap or easy. It shouldn't be something that random people decide to do just because they have a lovely dog.

Most pet dogs are lovely but that doesn't mean they should be bred from. Both dam and sire should be properly health tested - eyes, hips and elbows, plus tests and checks for any diseases that are common for the breed. That's not cheap. You have to make sure the dam and sire are healthy and excellent examples of the breed.

You also need to cover the costs - most insurance companies won't pay for any illness, surgery or death that occurs as a result of breeding your dog. So what if the bitch needs a cesarean or emergency surgery because something goes wrong in labour? What if, heaven forbid, you lose the bitch and have to hand raise the puppies on your own?

You then have to cover the costs of raising puppies for eight weeks - vaccinations, microchipping, food, heat pads, lights, whelping pen, registering the litter with the KC, sorting out puppy contracts.

That shouldn't be a task that people take on lightly. My main question is, is it worth the risk of losing your beloved dog?

From this board, general message seems to be

Only acceptable breeders are KC registered with extensive health checking. Sadly, the reason for all the health checks is recessive conditions - which become increasingly common due to generations of inbreeding to meet breed standards. Breed standards that include brachycephalic dogs that can't breath and prize winning GSDs that can't stand up straight.

Yet cross breeds - cockerpoos etc are work of the devil irresponsible puppy farmers. And amateur breeders are evil money grabbers.

Would have thought a cocker with working lines, you'd have no trouble homing pups, I'd probably go back to breeder to see if any pups available from similar lines

🤦‍♀️

I would argue that backyard breeders (misleading and silly term) are actually a good thing.

No one would say puppy farms are good, they're horrible.

But there is clearly a huge demand for dogs as pets, and rescue centres have high requirements (understandable considering the difficulties of some dogs).

Having people breed their pets isn't a terrible thing, when done responsibly. Most people (including myself) want a nice family pet and don't need pedigree or KC status from a long line of champions. Those breeders will be protecting their lines and not meeting demand.

By demonising backyard breeders all you are doing is pushing people towards puppy farms. I have never liked the attitude of expecting people to wait years for a pet when you just want a companion. Although even people breeding their pets should do checks on who they sell to and protect those animals.

At 5 years old, if you are genuinely concerned about her health you would be better getting her spayed. I dog sat an intact bitch at the age that developed pyo and it is very scary.

Speak to a vet about the risks of leaving her intact and breeding from a middle aged dog.

Go back to your breeder and see if you can get a pup from the same line instead.

In the OP’s defence I have been around dogs my entire life and I wouldn’t have thought that 5 was necessarily too old for a first litter. We were told by a vet that around 3 was the perfect age, so it would seem strange that 2 years would make such a difference when a healthy cocker spaniel should hopefully live for at least 12 years.

I’m not saying it’s a good idea because I don’t think it is. I just think the comments relating to that are a bit uncalled for.

“Country people” is code for posh.

So because you are a dog owner for x years confers you with the ability to work out the best pedigree match for breeding???
You do know people breed dogs and horses for particular characteristics not just because you want another puppy or she's a nice dog. And then you resist all reasonable viewpoints and say you'll head off to the county folk who will agree with your narrative.

I work with rescues and I have two of my own. Go volunteer to be with the vet on the weekly kill visit and see the terrified, blameless dogs coming in to get their injection to be put to sleep because of people like you. Your are a dick.

Country people isn't code for posh, it's code for people who have and work with working cockers.

@Jakey056 it can be hard to get a rescue dog. We have kids and trying to adopt a greyhound was like pulling teeth. We are a good dog home and involved in all sorts of classes and have a PAT dog etc but eventually have up and got puppies.

As a ‘country person with working cockers’ she is too old and OP please be vigilant about dog theft as so many working breeds are being stolen as puppies fetch such high prices right now.

[quote Gifgif]@Jakey056 it can be hard to get a rescue dog. We have kids and trying to adopt a greyhound was like pulling teeth. We are a good dog home and involved in all sorts of classes and have a PAT dog etc but eventually have up and got puppies.[/quote]
@Gifgif totally understand. Many rescues put dogs to sleep if they cannot be matched, particularly if they have specific needs. I was the last home after 5 tries for our German Shepherd. Because I was experienced it worked out but only after tons of hard work. It's easy to fail with a dog like that. Sadly spaniels are put to sleep every week because for every good home there will be several that will not be able to cope with their hyperactive nature. Not always suitable for kids and breeding as the OP suggests is like roulette. The dog pays the price though. We regularly put spaniels to sleep.
If you cannot find a dog to home see if you can foster and go from there.

@Stellaris22
By demonising backyard breeders all you are doing is pushing people towards puppy farms
Well, exactly. A 'backyard breeder' who breeds a pet to a health-tested stud, or produces a litter of farm ratters, and finds good homes for the puppies (often by word of mouth in the local area) is not the devil. Our first puppy was a word-of mouth find. Much, much better than some shitty puppy farm in Wales or wherever.

@Toilenstripes
"Country people" is code for posh
No, that's 'county'. County is posh, country is anyone who can tell a stoat from a weasel, comments how late the harvest is this year, and buys Christmas gifts in the agricultural suppliers.

You can be 'country' and 'county' - in fact, I'm not sure you can be county without being country - but I know a lot of 'country' people whose dads were shepherds or cowmen or whatever, and who are themselves emphatically not posh.