Advice

[TiersAndTiers]

DDog is a 13 month old ~arsehole~ Scottie cross cavapoo, or mongrel as I call her. Accidental mating much to my friends horror. She's been exceptionally sociable from day one and loves other dogs more than anything, but is partial to other people too. I've often joked that she'd quite happily piss off with anyone that would have her. We had 1:1 training and she's very capable, but recall continues to be a real issue because as soon as someone else or another dog is near, she's gone, and does not come back. Due to this, at present, she's on the lead at all times, except when we get to the local dog field and she goes off to play. She basically runs herself so ragged that catching her is easy. She's affectionately known as the friendliest dog in the town and whilst she gets told off by other dogs occasionally for being too full on, there's generally no problems. That sets the scene.

I took her to the field the other day and there was a pair of sibling cockerpoos. They're a similar age and unfortunately the owner really struggles with them. They seem to struggle to play and bark at the other dogs all the time. DDog was enjoying a play with others and one of them kept barking at her, very close and in her face. The next thing I know and DDog turned on her, no biting, but proper gnashing, barking, growling and pushing. She's not very big but clearly this bothered her not and whilst the other dog was going back at her she continued to stand her ground. I shouted for her to come ~still deluded on that one~ and she moved away from the cockerpoo and continued to play with her friends. Cockerpoo was put on their lead.

I've never seen her like that before, I suspect she was thoroughly pissed of with Barky McBarkface twins and so made it known but what should I have done/do/look out for in the future? Should I be concerned at all? For reference, my previous dog was a class A wimp who always came back, so this is new territory. Apologies for the essay.

I would not be letting her off and playing with other dogs if her recall is poor. Exhaustion is a really poor subsititute for recall.

You will never ever get a good recall if all the excitement is happening away from you.

Re the growling she really had no choice, if she felt uncomfortable she has no choice but to react herself. You are not there to step in , in her mind. I would be concerned that my dog was showing signs of over arousal and that I left her to it and could not step in to help.

Yes this could escalate. You need to work on focus on you when out.
I would imagine that this play date to day has probably set you back several weeks on recall.

She needs to be on a long line all the time until you have good recall with her. She can meet some dogs but not all dogs and she needs to understand that she does not play with them all.

Thanks for the advice.

One of the major difficulties is that she has no interest in food, so offering the 'high value treat' does nothing. On the lead and in the garden we practise eye contact training, especially if she pulls on the lead and I stop - and repeat. She does it and gets it, but unless I stick a small dog in my pocket, I have no high value treat to offer, my eye contact is not cutting it. She isn't bothered by balls or toys etc either. On the lead she also only gets a three second greet with other dogs and then I give her the command and off we go. There have definitely been some improvements, for example she wouldn't come in from the garden until she was ready, but now she does. I'm afraid I am never going to win against another dog, they'll win every time. I am hoping that as she matures and with persistence we will continue to make progress. If you have any ideas with regards to rewards I'd be keen to hear them.

The Barky McBarkface twins did have anti bark collars on that day. They emit the most awful sound every time they bark but clearly were not effective.

You’ll never win against other dogs if they are more fun than you.

I always teach this from a young age. I don’t allow play with other dogs ever, all of the play comes from me. They are allowed to play with someone I’ve met on purpose when I allow it but are never ever allowed to approach a dog on a walk. I don’t really like on lead greetings either, what’s the point?

Now when mine see another dog they associate it with nothing at all other than oh there’s a dog. It’s not fun or scary, just irrelevant.

I would stop all play with dogs and make her play with you instead. Flirt pole, ball, whatever she likes. Often you actually have to teach the dog play so you can do this at home. She also wouldn’t be going off lead until she was 100% if she was mine, too much risk involved. If she tells off the wrong dog or approaches one that does not want to be approached she could be in big trouble and so could you if you have no recall.

Most people just let their dogs play and run off saying hello left right and centre but to be honest it feels like lazy training to me, sorry

I am hoping that as she matures and with persistence we will continue to make progress. Unfortunately you will make little progress if she is allowed to carry on as she is.

You need to prevent all occasions when she can practice ignoring recall.

So when you let her into the garden you go with her on a lead.
She is not off lead on any walk, you can use a long line if suitable.

Recall in a dogs head needs to mean fun stuff is going to happen not oh bugger the game now stops. It takes time to build up and it will take you a while longer due to her having felt the freedom!

Get back in touch with your trainer for specific advice for you situation. I totally disagree with the idea that you can be more exciting than the environment - we will never ever win that battle but recall also starts from your interaction with your dog.

Do you have a dog whistle? That may help as she is very used to ignoring your voice.

Start off with just blowing the whistle when you feed her at home - eg peep the whislte and put her food down. Do this for every meal for a week - 2 weeks. Then you can build on this ask your trainer to help with the next steps

It sounds like totally normal dog communication.
She made her displeasure known in an appropriate way and the matter was settled.
Nothing to worry about

I think her reaction was perfectly acceptable given the circumstances however, you do have to be very selective about who she plays with if she's very friendly like that. Most dogs who become reactive have had a bad experience with another off lead dog.

She shouldn't be off lead if her recall isn't good. I know how hard that is, I've got a 14 month old who's recall isn't 100%. He stays on lead. He's just started to get interested in chasing a ball so we use a long trailing line while we play fetch, if he looks like he's going to bolt I step on the line.

Just keep her on lead, keep working on her focus. If you really want her to be able to play off lead then only allow her to play with fellow friendly dogs.

Thanks for the insights, really appreciated.

The dog field is like a dogs playground, people take them there for a good play and generally we all know each other, and the dogs. The two cockerpoos are relatively new and both the owner and the dogs look stressed. I wouldn't like to be in her position, she's constantly shouting at them and putting them back on the lead whilst close to tears, it's like they have no idea how to play or interact with other dogs. DDog has never reacted before, and I've been keen to make sure she's well socialised with appropriate learning experiences with other dogs. She certainly didn't appear affected afterwards, however I'm aware that I don't know whether she has been or not. It seems a shame that the advice seems to be not to take her anymore, she's in her element there and has so many friends, but if we need to stop then we'll have to. Poor sod won't half think her throat's been cut!

I did try a whistle, no impact whatsoever! I was warned that training a Scottie is challenging, throw in the sociability of a cavapoo and I got exactly what I signed up for didn't I?! I'll give the trainer a ring.

Thanks everyone.

You seem to be judging the other owner but not looking at the issues you have. You need to do more than try the whistle you need to work with it

Totally normal situation. The Barkey twins got told off - that’s fine! Your dog stood her ground, didn’t hurt anyone but communicated her displeasure to them. She basically said “piss off guys you’re a pita” some people over react to this kind of thing, but the dogs will have forgotten it two minutes later.

My schnauzer was like your dog at that age. They do mature and recall does usually get better. My dog still adores other dogs but she now has good recall and is good at sussing out when her company will be appreciated and when it won’t. Don’t lose heart!

I'd like to think that asking for advice and reflections on next steps would indicate that I'm considering the issues that we have, apologies if I haven't been explicit enough about that. I guess the judgment with regards to Barky dogs and owner is in relation to the processing and sense making of the situation; an act of reflection and analysis. And it has made me consider why I had not been more proactive and not allowed her off that day when I saw they were there. My past experiences had indicated that DDog has an excellent time on the field, and whilst we had met the Barky ones before, they'd been annoying but nothing else. That's a lesson learned. It's also interesting that when I shouted her, whilst she didn't come to me, she did stop.

Good to hear there's hope from others. She's a cracking dog, quirky and speedy. The other dogs chase her round the field like bait, she pulls such short turning circles that she always out runs them despite being tiny. I don't know how she manages to command such an audience, we joke that she's the pied piper!

I agree with a lot of what’s been said. We’ve had many dogs over the years, some have had wonderful recall pretty quickly, some have been stubborn and hard to motivate. Our routine, regardless of the above goes as follows:

•From day 1 they don’t go anywhere without a lead. Out for walks? On lead. Playing in our fields? On lead. Out in the garden to toilet? On lead (and only in a specific area of the garden). This means they don’t get the opportunity to learn/practice ‘run off and have fun/ignore owners’. This is 100% still possible for your dog, we’ve had rescues in the past and started this training with a 9yo before now.

•Teach them to play. It doesn’t always come naturally to a dog. I’ve had almost perfect success with a Tug-E-Nuff rabbit skin attached to a home made flirt pole. Once they’ve taken to this, you can either take the rabbit skin toy on walks as a ‘treat’ (smelly though!), or switch it for a tennis ball on the pole and try to entice them to fall for balls!

•Whistle train! It’s not a case of blow a whistle and they come. It takes work with most dogs. Whistle, then fuss. Whistle, then feed. Whistle then run away from them (indoors) and fuss when they catch. Run away excitably and then whistle and fuss when they catch. I highly recommend The ACME whistles.

•Eventually graduate to a longline in an area fee of other dogs/people. Be extra fun & energetic! Run away, blow the whistle... make it a game.

•When longline recall is reliable in an empty environment, graduate to a slightly populated area and practice more in the same way. Embarrassing? Yes. Worthwhile? You bet!

• Once you’re 100% confident on longline recall, attempt off lead in an enclosed, safe area (eg. hire a field). Then try in an enclosed, populated area such as a dog park at a quiet time of day.

I’m no trainer, I don’t claim this is foolproof or will definitely work for all dogs, or even that it’s the ‘correct’ way to go. It has however worked for all of ours. It takes work, and with some dogs it takes WORK! I have a friend who just never cracked it and her dog is always on a longline, it does happen. I wouldn’t risk letting a dog off lead at all, in any environment unless recall was reliable, for exactly the sort of situation you describe.

Good luck.

When you let her off to play with other dogs on the field and she ignores you, you're reinforcing to her that running off to other dogs is acceptable behaviour. If she won't recall to you then she needs to be on her lead. I know that sucks but it's not fair on other dogs (like those cockerpoos) to have a young, energetic pup bowl over to them and get in their faces.

I know you say she's friendly and I'm sure she is, but not all dogs want to play and you have to be able to recall your dog or things could get really dangerous. If the other dog is on lead and your dog gets bitten, sadly you would be the one to blame as your dog would be considered out of control.

Leash her at all times and really nail that recall. If she's not interested in toys or treats, try something like a rabbit fur toy, a squeaky ball or a rope so she gets interaction from you when she comes back or responds to her name.

The more you let her run off and ignore you around other days, the worse her recall is going to get.

Sandgroping Dog is always walked on an extendable lead because she prefers hunting to recalling.

However, two dogs living together have formed their own pack. Ddog does not like those two (any) bonded dogs greeting her together. So her lead is always shortened for increased control. She also loathes other dogs that like playing by getting into her face. All introductions are on a short lead and with plenty of distance to see if it will go well.

She walks with other dogs successfully and can play with them as much as she allowed so she has good social skills but I do not allow her to fend for herself.

And don’t get me started on the owners who indulge their dog and “allow them to sort themselves out”. Not with my dog, you don’t.

She responded well to 1:1 training before so I would be going back to that to train her recall.

whilst she gets told off by other dogs occasionally for being too full on, there's generally no problems.
^ you also need to work on this. Don’t underestimate how bad it is that she is ‘too full on’ and has to be ‘told off’ by other dogs. She needs to learn to play well.
(Some dogs, like mine, find it extremely stressful to have an over the top dog playing with them who doesn’t pick up on cues. It’s really annoying to have an owner just look on lovingly at their dog who is ‘only playing’ with another dog and completely missing the fact that the other dog is actually stressed.)

The other dogs chase her round the field like bait, she pulls such short turning circles that she always out runs them despite being tiny.

Does she ever chase the other dogs or is it always them chasing her?

Good healthy (for the want of a word!) is a balance of play eg sometimes one chases and sometimes on is the chaser, sometimes one dog is on top of the other one and then the roles reverse. If this does not happen I would question your dogs position in the play