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How to find a good breeder?

13 replies

2catsand2kids · 24/11/2020 22:00

I have spent far too many hours researching different dog breeds and which one would be right for our family. I had come up with a shortlist of miniature poodle, Tibetan terrier or whippet and think we have finally settled on a miniature poodle as the best option. However it feels like a minefield out there in terms of choosing a puppy from a good breeder (as opposed to puppy farms/irresponsible breeders etc).

Does anyone have any recommendations or advice about how to find a good breeder, are there websites that are better or worse to look on? Or can anyone recommend any good breeders of miniature poodles?

Thank you for any guidance.

OP posts:
Wildrobin · 24/11/2020 22:04

Is there a related Facebook page where you can ask advice? This worked for our dog’s breed, and taught me a lot

FrangipaniBlue · 24/11/2020 22:10

Join a few Facebook groups for your chosen breed and watch who posts/what the post, take your time and you'll notice parents/behaviours and you'll get a feel for what to look for?

Be wary of the "top breeders" who really push the "champion line" because they often have clauses like they retain the right to breed from your pup. Also watch out if they have two females with litters at the same time, they often mix the pups and put the best pups with the best female before they register them so you don't always know the bloodline and there is a danger they can be genetically related.

Flip side, avoid anyone who hasn't bothered or can't tell you whether both parents are health tested or hasn't had the pups KC registered "because they're not interested in being a breeder".... usually means they don't meet the breed standard.

You want a happy medium / middle ground so to speak?

Also be wary of pups "ready now"; most reputable pedigree breeders will have waiting lists before the pups are born.

A breeder who lets pups go before 10 weeks IMO is looking to minimise their costs/maximise profit so I'd also avoid.

FrangipaniBlue · 24/11/2020 22:11

Patterns and behaviours!! Not parents FFS lol

tabulahrasa · 25/11/2020 00:04

The breed club is where you want to start, there are official ones... and most of them have Facebook groups as well.

“A breeder who lets pups go before 10 weeks IMO is looking to minimise their costs/maximise profit so I'd also avoid.“

8 weeks is absolutely normal for most breeds - it’s the right age to socialise them.

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 25/11/2020 07:57

There are all different sorts of breeders, from the A* to the truly awful, and it can be hard to tell the difference. Someone breeding their family pet to a stud who has been tested for (and is clear of) known recessive genetic nasties in the breed can produce healthier puppies than an established show breeder who had a litter with a sky-high co-efficient of inbreeding (which too many of them do, in pursuit of a particular look).

People will say to never find a dog on an internet site, but I have known very good litters be advertised on ChampDogs (very good = sired by a field trial champion, all health tests done, endorsement lifted by stud's breeder).

PP advice about breed FB pages is very sensible. The owner of our puppy's father is on them and it's given me a good idea of what she's like and how she treats her dogs.

Dogs like the smaller poodles are often puppy farmed and smuggled so be very cautious. Look for a breeder who posts videos of the litter for prospective buyers and allows visits.

PermanentlyDizzy · 25/11/2020 09:05

I would start with the breed club and join the breed club’s FB page if they have one. Some breed clubs keep a puppy list that you can add yourself to, others will point you in the direction of breeders who are planning a litter. A good breed club will only list and work with breeders who meet their strict requirements re health testing and COI’s etc, but do be careful, as this isn’t the case with all of them.

I would also say it’s best to take your time and get involved with the breed. Under normal circumstances, I’d suggest maybe attending their shows or some shows where the breed is exhibited and get to know the community. Joining fb groups can be helpful to get a feel for what different breeders and their dogs are like. You will also be able to see those that stay in contact with their pups for many years after they go to their new homes to see what level of aftercare/support they offer.

blowinahoolie · 25/11/2020 11:33

You will also want to go with a breeder who will take returns if it doesn't work out for you, for whatever reason. I know it's thinking worst case scenario, but it's worth looking into this. Good aftercare too, life time support is essential.

maxelly · 25/11/2020 12:26

Concur with the advice above, and I think all you can do is approach breeders and quiz them very thoroughly and be very very skeptical. Be prepared to walk away if your gut tells you even if cute puppyness is pulling on your heart strings!

Good signs:

-The breeder grills you more than you grill them, with our breeder it felt very much as though we were being interviewed to see if we were worthy of getting one of her pups rather than vice versa!

-The breeder has pretty rigid conditions/contract for letting you take a pup e.g. pup not to be bred from, if you ever can't keep pup they will take it back even as an adult, how many visits you must make before taking pup. Our breeder was arguably a bit OTT in that she doesn't let people choose their own pup from the litter, she 'matches' you with what she thinks would be the best personality/type, some people wouldn't like this (my DH didn't!) but it's all part of her true care/love for the dogs and desire to ensure it works out for all concerned.

-They have long waiting lists and don't breed more than 2 litters per year, all pups usually spoken for pre-conception so you may need to wait 1 year +.

-Breeder plans to keep at least one pup themselves from each litter.

-Breeder familiar not only with potential pup's parents but also grandparents and wider family, can speak convincingly about their reasons for choosing that particular mating (whether that's for show purposes, work/sport or simply to produce nice family pets). They speak honestly/openly about any potential flaws in either parent (whether health, confirmation or temperament) and things they are trying to improve on or see in the pups.

-Breeder can produce/share full details of health testing of both parents and speak openly/honestly about any health issues in the breed - we have a breed that has some well known issues and our breeder is super passionate/angry about trying to eliminate these and the inadequate efforts of some of her peers in doing so!

Bad signs:

-Breeder has puppies immediately or imminently available, including tall tales around 'oh the last puppy from this litter was sold but the family had a change of circumstances so I have just one available but will go quick, make your mind up today' or any other hard sell/pushy sales tactics

-Breeder doesn't ask you much or seem to care too much about suitability of your home, e.g. if you have young children they just say 'oh that's nice, a playmate' or similar, rather than asking how you plan to keep everyone safe, make time for puppy training etc.

-No health tests of mum/dad or vague 'my vet's checked the puppy and says it's healthy' type scenarios. Excuses given or no/vague details provided re pedigree papers/registration of pup and general heritage of mum and dad.

-Breeder appears more concerned about ensuring they get their cash than other contractual issues e.g. re return of pup if anything goes wrong, or no contract/paperwork provided at all.

-Mating appears to have been chosen on basis of what will sell e.g. a fashionable cross or to ensure pups are 'cute' or right colour OR from convenience, e.g. they already own the dad or their mate does, rather than health/suitability of pups.

-Breeder appears to openly advertise on facebook/gumtree/preloved or other selling sites, IMO good breeders may post about their dogs on breed pages on social media etc but have little to no need to actively 'sell' their litters as people come to them, demand outstrips supply...

-Needless to say, all the classic puppy farm signs e.g. puppy can't be seen with mum or 'stunt mother' is used, puppy appears dirty, sick or to have been kept outside or away from family environment, very young puppies for sale, breeder sells more than one breed without good explanation etc

Good luck!

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 25/11/2020 12:42

I would add that not all good breeders keep waiting lists, or they may have homes lined up for six puppies and end up with 12.

They don't always keep a puppy, either. Our most recent puppy came from a litter where the breeder kept one, but with the previous two litters all the puppies were sold: the breeder had solid demand for her puppies from homes that she was happy with - and she is an excellent breeder who health tests, keeps her dogs their whole lives, has a contract clause about returning puppies to her if you cannot keep them, and turns out excellent examples of the breed.

It's an absolute minefield. It's about deciding what you're comfortable with and finding a breeder who ticks those boxes - and being sure they're genuine.

FrangipaniBlue · 25/11/2020 12:54

8 weeks is absolutely normal for most breeds - it’s the right age to socialise them.

Most vets and dog behaviourists would beg to differ, apart from the fact you shouldn't socialise a pup with other dogs until it's had the right level of vaccinations, which they don't have until 10 weeks.

maxelly · 25/11/2020 12:55

Yes sorry I probably should have said in my post that these are just good signs, not that every good breeder should tick all of these boxes. Re the keeping a puppy from each litter, ours does but between that, keeping all her breeding girls for life, the occasional external 'buy in' to keep her bloodlines fresh and the odd 'returnee' she has an unholy number of dogs living in her house Grin - not every breeder could cope with/afford that for sure and it doesn't make them a bad breeder per se. I would be a bit suspicious of a breeder who only ever seems to own active breeding bitches though - where are their retirees or ones that didn't make the grade?

I do think most good breeders do have a waiting list of some kind though, agree litters can turn out much bigger than expected but I've heard so many tales of people I've met that said 'oh we were lucky it was a really large litter and this was the last pup so we got him the same day we enquired' Hmm where that was clearly a cover for an irresponsible breeder looking to make a quick buck (won't say active puppy farm as I think there is a grey area and not all 'bad' breeders are puppy farmers). So I would be suspicious of anyone telling me that - not that it would be an absolute no from me if the breeder was perfect in every other way but alarm bells would be ringing! If nothing else you can usually tell from vet scans not the exact number of pups but whether it's a big or small litter so I would expect breeder to be lining up homes for at least roughly the right number of puppies pre-birth and then to have them pretty quickly spoken for well before they are ready to leave mum - if they are still needing to cast around for homes by 8 weeks ish I'd be questioning why they bred the litter at all (freak occurrence 101 dalmatians style enormous litters aside)!

tabulahrasa · 25/11/2020 17:27

@FrangipaniBlue

8 weeks is absolutely normal for most breeds - it’s the right age to socialise them.

Most vets and dog behaviourists would beg to differ, apart from the fact you shouldn't socialise a pup with other dogs until it's had the right level of vaccinations, which they don't have until 10 weeks.

Socialisation isn’t just mixing with other dogs Smile

Also it’s different ages for when they can mix properly depending on exactly which vaccines they’re given, but they can meet healthy vaccinated dogs immediately.

But 8 weeks is the normal age puppies leave at.

Baybetterdays · 26/11/2020 22:15

Champdogs

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