National pet data base

[habibihabibi]

My friend immigrated to Australia and recently took on a shelter dog. She told me in her state pet cats and dogs must be registered, chipped and desexed before 4mth and 6mths respectively.
Breeders have to pay hefty levies to be exempt.

Is there any similar legislation likely to be passed on registering and desexing in the UK?
When I read recently more than 100,000 UK dogs are dumped in shelters each year it seems a very good idea.

For many dogs, being neutered at 6 months is a terrible idea. They are not mentally, emotionally or physically mature, and early neuter can have serious health and behavioural consequences. And you can bet your bottom dollar that the people who have the oops litters or are the sort of careless dog owners who produce a large part of the shelter population will, on the whole, ignore the law. It's just likely to penalise conscientious owners and their dogs.

The way forward is to educate people. There are countries (some of the Scandi ones) where most dogs are intact but very few dogs go into rescue. It's also worth bearing in mind that the UK puppy market is topped up with tens of thousands of imported puppies from puppy farms, and that a large number of rescue dogs are also imported: as a country, we do not maintain our own dog pooulation.

Personally I'd have no problem with registering my dogs and paying a moderate licence fee if that is used to fund dog wardens etc, but I would really resent having to pay through the nose to keep a dog intact for the sake of its health.

The dogs are not the issue its people taking one on and not realising the commitment or being prepared to look after it.
It would be interesting to see the breeds of the 100,000 dumped dogs?

Will Brexit halt the dog importation ?
I presume currently dogs will just be transported in from the EU .
We live in the ME atm and to take our rescues back to the UK it is extremely expensive. Of course we will do it when the time.
comes. On top of cargo flights VAT of £100 per dog is charged.

10 MOST COMMON DOG BREEDS IN RESCUE SHELTERS IN THE UK

1. Staffordshire Bull Terrier

1. Akita

1. Greyhound

1. Jack Russell

1. German Shepherd

1. Rottweiler

1. Bulldog

1. Labrador

1. English Setter

10. Beagle

Now I am no dog specialist but I suspect many of these are from people who just dont realise or haven't researched the dog they are taking on.

I would be interested to know how many dogs are imported annually and how that compares to the numbers who end up in rescues (or destroyed from pounds) here, plus estimated number of pet dogs in UK

My worry is that puppy farmers will be able to afford licences, and poorly bred puppies with inadequate early socialisation will be the only ones readily available

That sort of ruling would probably also finish off the vulnerable native breeds, who are mainly produced by breed enthusiasts who only have occasional litters

Well dogs in the UK have to be chipped (whether they all are or not is a different matter), so technically there is a national register because dogs can be identified by anyone entitled to access the register (vets, dog wardens, animal charities, etc). I am opposed to enforced neutering though - unless there are good medical reasons for it, I believe that should be a choice, and there is no evidence that those who choose to ignore rules would abide by it anyway. My own dog (male) is at stud, but only twice a year - he is a blue merle and ISDN registered (highly intelligent) and his genes need preserving, but I am not going to pay a premium to do that, and it is unreasonable to expect people to.

All I can see such a proposal doing to "taxing" those who comply with the law, whilst those who don't will ignore it, and pushing the prices of dogs up even further which in itself will encourage puppy farming.

English Setter in rescue as above pp posted? Really? You hardly ever see them anywhere, let alone in a rescue!! Surely Border Collie or crossbreed would be much more likely. I do think compulsory cat and dog registration is a good idea and neutering important in many cases, but not at 6 months of age in dogs. That can be fraught with problems for some.

Microchipping of all dogs from 8 weeks of age is a legal requirement and has been since 2016.

If not done or details not up to date there is a fine.

Interestingly some countries it is illegal to castrate dogs unless there is a medical reason, eg Norway, used to be Germany think it still applies here.

@habibihabibi

10 MOST COMMON DOG BREEDS IN RESCUE SHELTERS IN THE UK

1. Staffordshire Bull Terrier

1. Akita

1. Greyhound

1. Jack Russell

1. German Shepherd

1. Rottweiler

1. Bulldog

1. Labrador

1. English Setter

10. Beagle

Take out setters, rotties and Akitas and it’s very similar to the top ten most popular breeds...

I would be interested to know how many dogs are imported annually and how that compares to the numbers who end up in rescues (or destroyed from pounds) here, plus estimated number of pet dogs in UK

The stats are not particularly easy to find (if someone knows a good source I love to know it too) but this is what I have scraped together over the years.
Dogs entering rescues is somewhere north of 100k a year - about 120k but some stats are double that.
Between 10 and 20k dogs are PTS in rescue/pounds each year - about 10% of dogs that go into rescue plus some euthanised in council pounds (some of these dogs will be very old, sick or have unresolvable behavioural issues).
This paper gives some number on legal dog imports:
300k dogs imported each year on pet passports; it's suspected that many these dogs are puppy-farmed dogs; some (the majority? - I don't think anyone knows) will people's own dogs returning with them from abroad; some will be overseas rescues.
31k dogs are imported commercially (some will be puppies being sold commercially; some will be show or working dogs being traded from one breeder/handler to another).
There are 8.5 million dogs in the UK which suggests a market for about 800,000 dogs a year.

The number of illegally imported puppies isn't known. Some come in on pet passports that overstate their age; others are just smuggled in in the backs of vans. I don't think even the Dogs Trust report on puppy smuggling gave a ballpark figure, but it's a fair bet that a significant proportion of puppies sold in the UK come from gruesome puppy farms in Ireland and mainland Europe. These dogs are higher than average risk for all sorts of diseases as well behavioural issues.

As for English setters being common in shelters - uh, no. Collies, springers, Yorkies, are all more prevalent on rehoming pages than all the setter (and indeed pointer) breeds put together. A lot of pedigrees will in any case go to breed-specific rescues.

Statistically only a very small proportion of dogs that enter rescue are put down for want of a new owner - some are put down for medical or behavioural reasons, but that's not going to be addressed by reducing supply of puppies.

If demand for rescue dogs meets or exceeds supply, I'm not overly concerned about the number of dogs entering rescue - it is essentially just facilitating the transfer of dogs from less suitable to more suitable homes.

It's not like the USA where large numbers of perfectly lovely, healthy dogs are put down purely because shelters are full

I've been trawling around Google and have found that in the state in Australia where you have to neuter your dog by 6 months of age, they have no legislation banning puppy farming.

Well, yeah: that's what's going to happen if you only allow every limited breeder exemptions for a fee. The people who thought they might one day breed a bitch they bred themselves - they'll probably give up, it's not worth all the hassle. The people who show their dogs but only breed a litter every two or three years - they'll think twice and some of them will throw in the towel. The new owners of a show-quality bitch who were vaguely considering showing and breeding a good line - hm, that's another hurdle to them taking that step.

But a puppy farm with 74 kennels - yay! That's just fine and dandy. Let's churn out ill-socialised puppies from breeding-machine bitches living in stressful conditions.

Anyone who campaigns for tight laws on neutering needs to ask themselves some very serious questions about how they expect dogs to be properly bred under such circumstances. Never mind why they are flying in the teeth of increasing evidence that, for some breeds, early neuter can be a health disaster,

I do think breeders should be licensed and those who aren't prosecuted and an absolute stop put on importing litters from mills abroad. I have dealt with the outcomes of outfits like Europuppy as a rescuer here in the middle East. Dogs purchased online, shipped out poorly, worm ridden and anti social.

@habibihabibi

I do think breeders should be licensed and those who aren't prosecuted and an absolute stop put on importing litters from mills abroad. I have dealt with the outcomes of outfits like Europuppy as a rescuer here in the middle East. Dogs purchased online, shipped out poorly, worm ridden and anti social.

So you are in the Middle East and are telling people in the UK what they should do about their dogs?

It doesn't matter what country people live in, if they purchase puppies through sites of this type ("free shipping" should be all it takes to know the provenance of the dogs) then they are (a) clearly supporting puppy farming, (b) highly unlikely to give a shit about what the law says provided they get the dog they want - or think they are.

Prohibition never works, and that is what you are suggesting. All you will do is drive more and more breeding underground, and make it less easy to regulate.

And I also think that that over three year old research you quoted is highly questionable - cross breeds are the most common dogs in the UK (and I don't mean designer mongrels), and yet are not even on the list. In my experience of rescues, that simply doesn't reflect reality.

Better regulation and higher standards for breeders, with proper checks and enforcement, is what is required. But I have no confidence that a licence fee for owners would actually result in any such thing - drivers in the UK pay a fortune in road taxes and we still have potholes! If introduced it would simply be swallowed up by the government. If any such licence were to be introduced I would only support it if it were clearly earmarked for and tied to improvements in welfare for dogs.

So you are in the Middle East and are telling people in the UK what they should do about their dogs?
I am a UK citizen and very passionate about dogs. Obviously where I live is not without its own animal problems and I do what I can to educate people and help animals where I can.
Recently I watched footage about puppy mills within the UK and there are a lot of posts on here about dodgy breeders.
I just think a first world country should lead by example.
I am not telling anyone to do anything , just curious why regulations aren't tighter.