How do I know who is a reputable breeder?

[JudesBiggestFan]

So, like half of the country, we're strongly considering getting a dog.
We both work from home, children aged 12 and 9 and 3, we do lots of walking, live near a nature reserve. I think we have lots to offer.
I've narrowed it down to either a Shih Tzu or a Bichon Frise being the best fit for us, but the last thing I want to do is buy from a puppy farm. How do I find a reputable breeder? Happy to be on a waiting list for however long it takes but just not sure how you know who you can trust? Any advice would be appreciated!

I don’t think you can ever be sure.

In theory i’d look for:

• Extensive health testing
• Low COI
• Mum present
• Nice, clean, cosy family environment
• Contract/Stipulation to return dog to breeder if it doesn’t work out
• Lifelong help and advice
• Not too expensive

In practise, in my experience breeders, including those with Kennel Club accreditation, medals, champions in sports etc do not utilise the full range of health tests available and COI’s can be very high.

The ‘mum’ isn’t always the mum, it’s not unusual for a nice, placid temperament bitch to be brought in to pretend to be mum.

The ‘cosy, family home’ often isn’t.
The puppies have been brought in and don’t live at the property.

And ‘not too expensive’ is personal and hard to gauge where it tips into blatant profiteering.
Many large breeds for instance (pre lockdown madness) typically went for £1,500.
That was the going rate but imo no dog is really worth that.
But I’d sooner trust the £1,500 breeder than the £5,000 breeder.

Champ Dogs and Kennel Club (Assured Breeders)have websites .

We got to see mum and Dad, Our puppy was registered with kennel club, first vaccines wormed and hip score. (all certificated.) We were allowed to choose the puppy in the litter. REgistered with vet and microchipped. 9acually that was a bit akward as you then have to have details changed and their is fee for this but it,s a sign they are responsable.)
Also not allowed to take pup until certain age. (8wks??)

Shih Tzu? They are prone to breathing issues, Why not lhasa Apso same dog but a proper nose so no breathing issues.
Have you considered something from the Venerable Native breeds list?
www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog/are-you-ready/vulnerable-native-breeds/
Breeders, we have a Vunerable native breed Dog usually they are rare as no money in Breeding them often due to small litters.
We contacted the three breed specific clubs who have puppy co ordinators who put us in touch with a lovely breeder who was breeding a Bitch for showing luckily she had two pups one she was keeping and we had the other. She showed us how to train and groom her and even has her back for holidays, she stressed the Dog comes with a return ticket any issues she would have her back, sadly many breeders are just in it for the money.

I do wonder if a breeder has a website are they just in it for the money?

We’re getting our puppy in 2 weeks, having waited for him since he was pretty much born. We got to choose him ourselves, his mum is 5 and this is her first and only litter and both parents are pure breed.
The home was lovely and the breeders have sent us regular updates and pictures of him.

We’ve been looking since before lockdown and the price has definitely increased quite a bit.Our dog is a a Siberian Husky and they’re not cheap at the best of times but we had decided on an upper limit anyway as some of the prices we saw were obscene.

I think gut instinct plays a huge part too. I sense things very easily and I felt nothing but positivity and hope I’m proved right.
We will be taking him for a full vet check the day after we get him.

Word of mouth
Follow the history of the breeder
Ask to speak to previous owners of litter
Speak to the Sire and ask for history of the Sire
Ask and see all the health certificates
Ask why they have not done all of the tests if not done some are recommended not essential for specific breeds
Ask how they socialise the puppies in the first 8 weeks - they need to have a plan for this and not just a general comment
Do they use ENS on their puppies if not what do they do instead
Do they introduce the puppies to the car before they leave the breeders- how do they do this

After lockdown visit and see the breeder in person before parting with any money
Kennel club assured breeder may be a place to start but by all means is not a quarantee that they are a good breeder
Be prepared to research for a long time if the breed is new to you.
This research is not done in one evening but months of research and follow up

The breed club, or a regional breed club in numerically large breed, can be a useful starting point as the secretary may be able to advise on breeders in your area or have an idea about planned litters. I'm not by any means suggesting that the show world is perfect - far from it! - but they are probably recommending people they actually know in person, are unlikely to tolerate out-and-out puppy farmers within the club and they usually have a code of ethics which includes health testing.

Same for the Kennel Club Assured Breeder Scheme, it's not perfect but it's a reasonable place to start. All of the qualifiers and questions that Polly lists above still need to be satisfied.

The Puppy Contract covers a lot of the basics you need to look for.

Why not rescue a dog? Lots of dogs are being given up as people are not managing with a new dog this year.

There isn’t just one way to check out breeders. However, checking these and urs can help you

Check the kennel club. While in the website, read about the breed page do you know what health issues can be DNA and other tests. Check the breeder you’re interested in conducts these tests. The results are on the kennel club website

Join the breed club. You’ll be able to read which breeders are active in the breed club and their dogs

Join a FB group dedicated to the breed (or a few). Watch and listen to what goes on there. You can always ask general question in the breed fb page for recommended breeders in England (or wherever you live). I’m in Surrey. My first dog I travelled to Kent to a breeder, my current comes from Lancashire. Be prepared to travel

When you’ve learned about the breeders, then contact them to get in their waiting list. Some are very choosy who they sell their puppies to do maybe do some research so you already know where you’d take the puppy for training classes, vets, groomers etc.

For my second dog, I had to give reference to breeder on my groomer (that my dog was groomed regularly - like the breeds you’re interested in regular grooming is a necessity), vet (that I took my current dog for check ups, vaccinations etc) and who I used for dog care when we were out /holiday. And they called.

A good breeder wants to ensure you’re the right fit for the puppy.

We’re currently on a 2 year waiting list for our next dog.

I do wonder if a breeder has a website are they just in it for the money
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Some websites are, once you start to fish around, pretty obviously fronts for breeders who are at best hygienic commercial facilities with the puppies (and the parents) having limited interaction with people, and at worst the selling fronts for puppy farms. They will have little buttons down the side of the homepage with tags like 'Our Girls!' and there will be a dozen breeding bitches of three or four or more breeds and 'Available' with (in normal times) at least once litter always on the ground and another due imminently, plus 'Rarely available' which will be 'We feel that after five years and several litters lovely Maisie deserves a relaxed retirement in an A* home! Could that be you? £750.'

Those sort of websites make me feel a bit ill TBH.

Others will only feature a handful of living dogs, plus another page of previous dogs, and pedigrees, work or show awards, and health test info. There will be pictures of ancient bitches living out their retirement with the breeder, or little videos of puppy training.

There are people who breed the family pet and make a really good job of it - they find a health-tested stud, look up the COI of the mating and ensure it's sensible, take advice from people who have bred litters before, socialise the puppies really competently, and check out potential homes very carefully (they often start with wanting a puppy themselves, a neighbour who wants one and a relative who wants one, so they might not be homing many pups to strangers).

And there are people who breed the family pet to make a quick buck.

If you ask questions about COI, pedigree, why they are breeding the bitch, socialisation, health tests and so on, you should be able to tell one from the other.

It is a bloody minefield, though. There are circumstances I can think of where I would prefer a puppy out of un-tested parents born in the dining room over one from health-tested parents bred too young and too often, with too high a COI, and kept without respect for the natural drives of the dogs in question.

Why not rescue a dog? Lots of dogs are being given up as people are not managing with a new dog this year
The OP has a 3 year old.
The majority of dog bites are to children under 5 and most rescues will not (very sensibly) rehome to families with under 5s, sometimes older.

Plus, I do occasionally search through rescues browsing their dogs and from what I’ve found, pretty much all the dogs have ‘issues’.

Whether that’s because the majority genuinely do or because the well balanced ones go before advertising I don’t know but I wouldn’t rescue a dog with young children.

Plus, most of temperament is inherited, it’s extremely important to check the temperament of a prospective puppy’s parents imo, you can’t do that with a rescue.

Just to point out here - ChampDogs is crammed full of puppy farms. I’m always surprised when it is pushed on here as the ideal place to look for a puppy.

Sign of a good breeder:

Selling a puppy in recent months to a family fairly local to you and arranging for you to meet their new puppy. We were able to do this a few months ago. Shows the breeder has nothing to hide. The family answered our questions too. This is invaluable experience for researching the breed. Please do this if you can before jumping in to buy. The following weekend we met the breeder and all her dogs. Unfortunately her bitch wasn't in pup so she recommended another ethical breeder who we are visiting soon. No plans to buy a puppy until 2021.

Always look for health tested parents. Puppy farms who use Champdogs as a platform are unlikely to health test. They are only interested in profit, not welfare of the breed.

Just to point out here - ChampDogs is crammed full of puppy farms. I’m always surprised when it is pushed on here as the ideal place to look for a puppy
I think any selling platform will be tbh.
Pets4homes, champdogs, the Kennel Club ‘find a puppy’, breed clubs etc.
They will all have both excellent breeders and diabolical breeders listed.

Also, the breed of dog we are after means the breeders do home checks and will not just hand over the puppy to you just because you have the money available. There has been no talking of deposits. Also a good sign. You should be able to view a few times before talking deposits.