Stuck with recall training, help!

[Tournesol]

Hello,

We have been doing Pippa Martinson's Total Recall training with our 11month working cocker and we've hit a block and I'm not sure how to progress.

He was great with the training around the house and garden and seemed well-conditioned to the whistle but since we took it out on walks he has become less and less responsive.

We have kept it really simple so far and only blown the whistle when he was voluntarily returning but even that he has started to ignore.

Not sure if it's just his tricky age or his general personality. He doesn't run off for miles, always stays fairly close and constantly checks in on me (I encourage this by regularly hiding from him). But he doesn't come up close enough to touch him so I can't easily catch him when needed.

Not really sure what to try next. He loves food but just sniffing the ground is pure joy to him and nothing can compete! Does anyone have any words of wisdom on improving recall?

1. Try a gundog training class. The trainer will be well up on the attitudes of the average WCS and will be able to give you a lot of advice, hints and tips
2. Does he like tennis balls? Offer one as a recall bribe, or teach him to hunt for them around your feet and if possible bring them to you when he finds them - that gives you a chance to get hold of him
3. Every single time he recalls, get hold of his collar - and then as often as you can, let him go again. That way, recall and having his collar touched won't be about being stuck back on the lead

Thank you for your tips! I think gundog training could be a good plan.

He does love tennis balls but once he has one he will not drop it! Just wants to carry it in his mouth.

@Tournesol could almost have written your post myself. My german pointer is almost perfectly trained but sees no point in recall, life is just too exciting. Swifts, squirrels, cats, birds, the scent of rats and oh did I mention swifts. Balls, food, her best friend, nothing is more interesting than doing her own thing. In a confined area she is amazing but there is a hump we just can't get over.
Basic trainer, gundog trainer, prison dog trainer all done and all shake their heads at her antics. I'll keep trying but expect that her reputation will start to precede her.
Good luck, I have been assured that it eventually clicks (with most dogs).

When training anything introduce the behaviour, in this case recall.

When that is ok then you can increase distance duration and distraction.

You have increased distraction too quickly.
You have also not completely taught the recall if he is not coming right up to you.

Start with that at home. I dont do collar grab and recall at the same time for some dogs this can put them off coming to you. (I do collar grabs when the dog is just chilled next to me)

Blow your whislte and reward at your feet.
Blow the whistle and reward between your legs
Blow the whistle and rewards throwing the treat through your legs
Get your dog excited to wonder where the treat will be
Sometime put the lead on other times run away after giving the treat and let them chase you
Vary the end of the recall.

The reason the recall is not so successful out and about is that there are too many distractions. Just sniffing the grass is amazing if you are a wcs

So going from home garden to the walk is too much of a distraction.

Think of it from a working cockers point of view. He knows the garden inside and out, smelled all the smells, seen all there is to see.

Then you go to his walk. The smells, the movement, the air, the atmosphere, the leaves, the squirels, it is SOOO exciting. The environment in this situation is competeing against your whistle and reward.

So what to do?

Carry on in the home and garden, then choose a boring place. This depends on your dog but a quiet small area is a start. Have your dog on a long line and practice here. Dont let the dog go too far away from you and reward as if they are the best thing ever. This is hard for them and they need encouragement to master the recall in a different area.

So build up what you are doing considering the distractions from a wcs point of view.

Remember there is no hurry to get this right, if you have to use a long line for a bit that is fine. Everyday is a school day and the slower you go with this the better it will be in the end.

The problem with upping the reward eg find a new reward eg ball or tuggy toy is that you will rarely win consistently against the environment. What you are aiming at is a reflex reaction to the recall command which takes time and practice

It is very common to feel like you are going backwards at the teenage stage. You are not and all your foundation work will pay off. Stick with it be consistent and you will have a fab recall. Dont doubt yourself

@MrsPernicious thank you for sharing your story, it's good to know we're not the only ones struggling with this. Are you able to have your dog off the lead and if so how do you catch her when it's time to go?

@PollyRoulson thanks so much for your advice! I think you're right that we need to go back to basics and then find somewhere more boring outside to test it.

Going through similar with our 9 month old retriever adolescent - before returning (for praise and treats!!) he will look all round him to make sure we aren't recalling him because something interesting has turned up. Then he will go along with it. Basically he just wants to be out with his friends creating mischief! Just keep plugging away at the training...

Long line.

Practice first in an enclosed (or boring) area. Throw treats for your dog to find; when he finishes eating, call him to you. When he turns towards you, a big 'Yess!', get excited, welcome him back, give him a treat. Then send him out again, and repeat.

If he doesn't recall, reinforce your command with little tugs on the long line (not a great haul in, but think of trying to rattle his collar tag a bit) until he does. When he does, make a big thing of it, reward him, send him out again.

You need to be able to reinforce the recall so that he comes back every time, hence the long line. The more often he doesn't come back or goes AWOL and you haven't got a way to encourage him back and reinforce that he must, the longer it will take to get the recall reliable.

Great advice from Polly! Would just say watch out for him starting to fall in love with other dogs - mine (also a WCS) did that at a month or two older than yours and it confused things for a bit. His head and tail would go right up and he’d be off. If he starts doing that get a long line immediately. We had a few scary moments where ours went across a road, though luckily our street is by the park and quiet. He seemed to realise what the line was for pretty quickly and calmed down and it saved a lot of stress as he would have literally run out into the main road if he’d smelled a girl dog on the other side - downside to the cocker nose!
Also, vary the treats and try some big hitters - liver works really well, and offal! Ew, but they love it.

Thanks for all the amazing advice! I think long line in boring location is the way forward.

@MaryLennoxsScowl when you say liver and offal as treats what format do you mean? Are they not really sloppy? Do you make them yourself? TIA!

Home made liver cake is excellent; most dogs absolutely love it. It's low fat and low calorie.

500g liver
200g flour
2 eggs

Whizz liver in a blender until it's like a smoothie
Fold flour in well
Fold in eggs
Leave to rest for a bit then put into shallow-ish cake or loaf tin. Bake at medium heat for 20-25 minutes or until there's a nice crust and a knife comes out clean.

When it's cool, chop into treat-size pieces. It will keep in the fridge for about a week or freeze it and take out the day's portion the night before you need it.

It doesn't smell nasty when cooking; once done it looks and handles like stale bread and has very little odour (to people).

The blender part is a bit grim though if I'm honest!

I believe there are a couple of breeds that shouldn't have liver (Dalmatian? Bedlington?) as they can be affected by a genetic issue processing vitamin a, but others are fine providing they don't need to be grain-free.

We get something like a lamb’s heart from the butcher and stick it in the oven and when cooked chop it into small pieces. We have a waterproof treats bag so although they’re a bit greasy they’re not drippy.

@Tournesol, I think you said your dog likes to chase a ball but won’t give it back. Our dog used to do the same, so now I take two balls, the ones that are on a rope, out on a walk to throw. He brings the ball back because he knows I will throw the other one. This has helped his recall so much. He ignores most dogs now, unless they are well known to him or they’re extremely playful, but he quickly loses interest in them. At 15 months I guess that could be an age thing. The only downside is that he has started to bounce up at me like a kangaroo when he gets impatient and wants the ball.
I also recommend taking high reward treats with you. I take out leftover roast chicken and liver. I cook the liver for about 25 minutes until it’s a bit hard then chop it up with scissors. Liver cake is also really good. I agree with the poster above that visually it looks gross when blended!! I made the mistake of trying a tiny piece out of curiosity. It was fecking awful!!! Dog loves it though. 😄