Leaving dog in crate

[whoami24601]

This is a bit of a niche issue so bear with me.

We foster dogs for a local charity. On Friday we got our latest - a beautiful and very well behaved 2 year old staffy. Pretty sure he's mixed with something though as he's v stocky and tall for a staff. He's crate trained but his previous owners took the crate away a few months ago so he's not been in one for a while. We do have a crate and he's been sleeping in it quite happily. Today I left him for the first time for a few hours with no problems.

Today I get a text from DD8 school. Her bubble has burst and she will need to be home for the next 2 weeks. DH is working from home so I'll still be expected to go to work. His office is currently in the loft up a ladder so he can't take the dog upstairs with him.

Would it be totally awful to put dog in his crate for the day while DD is in the same room? He's a big dog and not that well known to us to trust him and DD to be alone together for any length of time!

I really don't know what other options I have! He wouldn't be in there for more than four hours still as DH will come down and let him out on his lunch.

Help!

So is it your opinion that no one who works should ever have a dog?

I also work in a school and DH works full-time.

Our two rescue dogs get..

7am..garden and breakfast
8am..short walk offlead
8.20am..Left free-range in the house (my bed mostly)
12.30pm..DH goes home for lunch and a garden visit
3.30pm..I get home and we go for a walk
Then dinner, evening walk, bedtime garden trip and back to my bed...

I can't imagine locking my dogs up in a cage for anything other than very short period and I've never owned a cage for them. We got suitable rescue dogs when we were both in a position to keep the way we do. My dogs are both older now and quite happy to flop around the house and bark at the postman (who puts biscuits through the letter-box).

It breaks my heart to think of dogs left for hours on end during the day in a crate. If folk want them to sleep all night, what do they want them to do all day? Dog in rescues do have more space to stretch their legs, along with lots of staff coming and going and other dogs to interact with. A single dog locked in a tiny cage is awful- zoo animals aren't treated like that and zoos are still considered cruel!

I've never crated my dog, however I do think they can be beneficial in young or anxious dogs who may otherwise chew or become destructive.

But that doesn't mean dogs should be left crated all day long. A play pen type set up is a better alternative for most, or a safe room where the dog can eat, sleep, drink and explore safely.

I think what you're planning is just too much time crated for the dog, especially if he's also crated at night. I know it's not everyday but it's still a very long time for a dog to be stuck alone in a tiny space.

I would trial him in a safe space away from your daughter and see how he gets on. There are two people home so if he's noisy or becomes destructive then he can be stopped before he does too much damage!

All day where does your DD usually spend her time when school is finished?
You are getting upset by people telling you leaving a dog in a crate all day is too long and justifying it by saying you usually just do it for four hours.
But your question is, is it ok to leave a dog crated all day?! No it’s not. It’s way too long.
Does the rescue know you do this... you really need to return the dog to the shelter.

Yes I've contacted the rescue who are going to see if they can get me some day care for him on the days that he needs it. If not I'll do DD a pack up and she'll have to stay upstairs while he is downstairs. She watches a lot of YouTube and they're always doing '24 hours in your bedroom' type things. I can make it fun! I've also taken on board all that people have said on here about the crate. I've never used them with my own dogs so it's all new to me but I'm learning! We've decided to encourage the crate at bedtime but leave it open and then not to use it during the day. His bed and food and water will stay in as then he has his own little space but he doesn't have to go in if he doesn't want. Thanks all for the (brutal!) advice!

That sounds good. Well done for accepting the (not always kindly worded) advice given here and altering your plan in order to make your foster dog as happy as possible.

@whoami24601

Does anyone on this thread use a crate at all? If so would you mind telling me when/ how long for/ doors open or closed?

Last adult dog that was crated... the door was closed for about 5 hours overnight, he had joint issues that meant he shouldn’t be using stairs and had a thing about chewing wires - and was large enough to move furniture to get to them.

The odd hour or two a week when I had to go somewhere and no-one else was in and when someone he didn’t know came in.

Other than that those the door was open while someone was up.

I have just adopted a nervy rescue dog and small kids and we have a crate for him. He is out of the crate when I'm downstairs but if I have to go up to use the loo, or do bathtime etc he goes in his crate. Never for longer than necessary.

He's out on the sofa with me right now watching tv but he was in his crate earlier while 2yo DD had her tea in the living room. He takes himself to the crate for sleeps too.

I don't think crates are awful but I wouldn't leave a dog in one all day long, I just don't feel that's fair.

@mintyfreshh

I have just adopted a nervy rescue dog and small kids and we have a crate for him. He is out of the crate when I'm downstairs but if I have to go up to use the loo, or do bathtime etc he goes in his crate. Never for longer than necessary.

He's out on the sofa with me right now watching tv but he was in his crate earlier while 2yo DD had her tea in the living room. He takes himself to the crate for sleeps too.

I don't think crates are awful but I wouldn't leave a dog in one all day long, I just don't feel that's fair.

Apologies if I'm being horribly condescending but please read up on safe dog-child interactions, stress signals and trigger stacking.

Sophia yin, doggone safe and the blue dog have some great resources online

Who approved you to foster I thought the point of fostering was so the dog got used to a home life the crate is probably smaller then the kennel at the shelter whatever problems the dogs coming to you have they will leave with even more and as if you can assess the temperament while your at work and the dogs in a crate no wonder why so many rehomings break down I actually can’t believe I’m reading this

Can’t the crate go upstairs in a bedroom or somewhere so he isn’t with her? Maybe being in the crate whilst everyone is out is ok but with someone there he might not like it

If you're not going to rtft can you at least be bothered to read my most recent update? This is getting boring...

@whoami24601 I think it's wonderful that you foster dogs! :)

Please ignore all the previous, negative comments. You're trying to do your best in a situation that you don't have many options for.

If I was you, I would contact the dog rescue and explain your situation. Hopefully, they will be able to give you some advice. Is the dog's crate in the kitchen? Can he have free roam of the kitchen but with the crate door open so he can go in there as and when he needs/wants to? Your DD could always be kept seperate then in the living room perhaps?

Good luck! :)

You keep saying RTFT. Even having read it all, you have no business fostering dogs. You’re pretty ignorant on a lot of things that dogs need, especially fosters who are meant to be being prepared for forever homes. Locking them in cages for half their time is failing in your duty of care.

Ok Derbee fancy educating me out of my apparent ignorance then?

Not sure you and I would ever see eye to eye. I am a long term foster carer for dogs, with a multitude of issues that we work on before they go to their new homes.

You’ve accepted up thread that it’s not reasonable to leave the dog in the crate the whole time you’re a work. You’ve admitted that, and accepted it. But to need to be told, when you ALSO crate the dog all night as well is ridiculous. Most people would be able to see that 50% or whatever it is of his life in a crate is too much, and is not fair.

I am surprised that the rescue organisation doesn’t have an issue with this.

Glad you seem to have taken some advice from others though, and hopefully this dog’s life improves

Thanks Derbee. If you're an experienced foster carer it would be helpful to chat rather than argue. I've admitted I was ignorant about the use of crates. I think what I'd read was from American sites as now I've looked at more info it seems crating for long periods is acceptable there. I don't think it's fair to say I don't know anything about dogs though. Every dog comes with it's own unique issues and is a learning curve but I'm doing the best that I can.

And just for the record I work short hours 3 days a week, so it's nowhere near 50% and it upsets me that you'd think that.

I Homecheck for a couple of dog charities and there’s no way I would rehome a dog to you given your circumstances , how the hell are you fostering?

What circumstances are so awful?

The dog is left alone for so long. Your DH comes down if it’s distressed but what if it’s not? It might just want company. You leave the dog for up to 8 hours with a walk in the middle . And until you were told otherwise you used a crate for long periods
Plus you have an 8 year old
You used the word awful, not me though

@whoami24601 I think most of us who foster are surprised you are fostering when you are out of the house for 8.25 -3.05 3 days a week.

Most fosterers need to be at home full time and committed to spend this time with the dogs. Not just being in the house (as your DH is) but observing and spending time with the fosters.

The reason so many of us are commenting on this is because it is extremely unusual for any rescue to use fosters in the position you explain.

Most fosterers have a lot of experience with dogs and some of your questions show that you do not. Nothing wrong with that we all have to learn but again it is usual for a foster situation.

The issue is that the dog you are fostering can not be rehomed correctly as it has not been fully assessed and cannot fully assessed correctly in the situation it is in now. Also having children with a foster dog needs very very careful management.

It is a very unusual situation for a dog foster

Ok thanks for that. I will say that the charity assess the dogs carefully and only place dogs in the appropriate setting. As such there are not many we can help with as so many of them have issues with children or separation anxiety. I've had a dog with issues myself for 7 years and I have a lot of knowledge from him but yes you're right that I don't have the variety of experience. If a dog is known to be good with children and fine to be left then I don't see why we can't help tbh. Without fosterers a lot of these dogs will end up in kennels (Or worse). If I can help occasionally then I will. Like I said every dog is different and I'm learning 'on the job' as such. Our last foster was really bad with demand barking around food when she came, but with advice and support from the rescue we were able to help her to the point she could lay next to me while I ate and not even look up. How can what I'm doing be a bad thing?

I think what I'd read was from American sites as now I've looked at more info it seems crating for long periods is acceptable there.

Many Americans have very different ideas about dog-care than we do in the UK. They routinely mutilate their dogs with docking/cropping and often use spike collars/electric collars and fences. Their dogs often live outside or in garages and often spend most of the the daylight hours in cages. Many Americans (thankfully not all) also think that Cesar Milan was a great trainer of dogs.

We tend to be kinder and more empathetic to our animals in the UK. Our good breeders and rescue organisations set very high standards for rehoming animals as they're responsible for their welfare for their whole lives.

If you're looking for education on good practice in animal management, the US is not the place to look at the moment.