I now have a growly dog... HELP!!!!

[loveyouradvice]

I have a minature wire-haired dachshund, now 5.

He's always been the most people-loving playful funny good natured dog out .. the one that gets everyone going "Aaaah" in the park.

He still is when out and about.... BUT.....

He now growls a fair bit - he doesn't snap yet but I'm worried he might.

When it happens:

• When he doesn't like a bigger dog - around 50% of the time
• When another dog is too bouncy - often a young one - around 60% of the time
• When I put his food down if it is more than kibble (ie meat or meat juices in there), and I touch him if he is waiting - or stroke him when he is eating
• Three times when I've picked him up suddenly
• Thankfully NEVER with other people in the park, and he is great with children

There are two things that have changed in the last 24 months:

1. Mauled badly by a bigger dog two years ago - took around a year for him to be comfortable with bigger dogs again
2. for the last three months or so, I have been giving him less food - he's had disc problems and although not overweight, I know he would be better a pound lighter... so he might be very hungry!

What I'm trying to see if it makes him less growly....

1. talking to him more or picking him up when his food is on the ground... not sure this is working... think it puts him in a very grumpy mood! But based on reading something yonks ago that said you should train a puppy to be stroked when eating to have a non-biter... I did this and he used not to mind, beyond tensing a little bit

1. reassuring him if a bouncy young dog is around

What else?

Other thoughts?

And am I mad to be petting him when his food is out - on one level, I think just let the poor fellow eat!!!!

And I know how grumpy I can get on a diet

Oh, and my last thought....

He may be in pain? Is it worth talking to a vet?

He had a back problem in March, 8 weeks cage rest, and still has a small deficit in one back leg. Fine to exercise but I've been told to not take him for more than an hour for the next year or so. Running around it clearly isn't a problem but ??

Just a thought and I dobt know if its been disproved but Cesar Milan says not to give praise to a dog when it is in a nervous state of mind. So your 'reassurance' when a big dog is about may be infact telling your doggy that it is right for him to be nervous. Maybe best to try to distract him with something at these times instead.

Mini dachshund owner here. I would look for a behaviourist to give you 1:1 advice. But what works for me is...

Other Dogs:
Mine also doesn’t like big dogs or bouncy dogs. I tell the owners and they call their dog away. Have you tried a ‘nervous dog’ lead/harness?

Food:
Raw feeding is really good at filling them up and helping with weight loss/maintenance. I would highly recommend it. I raw feed (often on a licki mat or wobble bowl so that the meal lasts longer) and give bones for enrichment/dental health. (I weigh the food out as you have to be pretty precise with it - but that is the only faff.)

Do not touch him while he eats. You need to look into resource guarding. Again, the behaviourist will help you with this.

Picking Up:
I’m sure you know this but don’t pick him up suddenly! Or at all really, just because he’s small doesn’t mean he’s not a dog - you wouldn’t pick up an Alsatian.

Well, first of all stop interfering with him when he's eating or about to eat. Most dogs don't accept this sort of thing, they like to be left alone when around food.

My dog is incredibly easy going but she doesn't like to be touched when she's eating either.

Don't pick him up unless absolutely essential, and certainly not suddenly, many dog hate being picked up, maybe he's one of them.

Getting growly when other dogs are around or getting too boisterous is completely understandable, especially as he's been attacked in the past.

Growling because you're giving him less food seems very unlikely, unless he's super-intelligent and can look at the amount of food in the bowl and judge that you're giving him less; it's more likely to be a warning that now he's got his food he doesn't want to be touched. And why would you pick him up when you've given him his food.

Stop doing things to annoying him - would you be okay with someone interfering with you or your food when you're hungry and eating or about to eat, or someone suddenly picking you up when you're least expecting it?

The things you're doing make no sense and have no value as any sort of training. You're just turning him into an angry dog.

I'd take him to a vet to make sure it's not a medical problem, but the things you're doing are probably making him worse. With food wise I'll pick up my dogs bowls and replace it with a treat. But with a dog displaying aggression I wouldn't recommend trying to do this yourself.

Find a good behaviourist to help you and don't listen to Cesar Milan, that man beats dogs into submission.

Just seen you read something about training a dog to be touched when eating to have a non-biter. That is absolute rubbish. Is that from Cesar Milan? As SlothMama said, don't listen to him and don't trust anything he says or writes, his methods are untrustworthy and many of them are abusive.

Also noticed about the back problem, and yes, agree with PP, go back to the vet to get this checked out.

Growling is good- he is telling you or other dogs that he's not happy. Far better that than him just going straight to biting. Perhaps look up online about dog body language.

Why are you interfering when he's eating? That could make him resource guard in the long run. He's telling you he dues by like it, so stop!!

Doesn't *

I would look at this from a totally different perspective - growling is communication, and communication is GREAT because it tells us more about what our dog thinks, likes and dislikes, and allows us to work with that. Dogs have opinions, and that's absolutely fine - and they definitely need to be allowed to say "no" to things. You should never tell a dog off for growling, because that tends to create dogs that feel they have no option but to bite, because they're not allowed to give a final warning.

Growling is your dog's way of saying "no", and the key to stopping it is to work out what is making him uncomfortable and avoid it.

For instance

• Your description of DDog growling at you when there's 'more than kibble' suggests that the gravy etc. is turning the food into a high value item - a resource that's worth guarding. There's absolutely no need to be touching your dog while it's eating. Put the food in the bowl, put the bowl on the floor, and leave well alone until the dog has finished eating. This prevents the dog feeling uncomfortable, and so eliminates any need for growling.

If you think your dog is getting 'hangry' then you can top up with low-calorie treats - raw carrots are a go-to for most people in this situation, as most dogs love them.

• Is there any real need to pick your dog up? Many (most?) don't actually enjoy it. There are some situations where it's genuinely necessary to pick your dog up (e.g. on the escalators in a tube station) but these are few and far between. Given the history of back problems (IVDD I presume), there's also a good chance that being picked up has caused pain.

• With other dogs, it's really common for middle aged+ dogs to be grumpy with young bouncy dogs that have no manners. Telling them off by growling is a form of boundary setting - and there's nothing wrong with that at all. It does, however, tell you that your dog is uncomfortable around bouncy dogs - and to try and avoid them in the park where possible. There's also a good chance that DDog has learned to associate bouncy dogs with being hit in the back, which probably causes pain.

• As others have suggested, it would be worth getting the vet to check your dog over for pain. I know I get grumpy (snappy, even!) when I'm in pain, and it's one of the main causes of dogs that suddenly become grumpy.

Finally - and this is really important - growling is generally a final warning, issued only after lots of more subtle forms of communication have been ignored. A lot of (most!) dog owners simply don't recognise the more subtle bits of body language that indicate a dog is uncomfortable with a situation. This is a really useful video (by a well regarded behaviourist in the Bristol area) that takes you through the more subtle signals If you can learn to read these, it means you can stop a situation before it escalates to a growl

If you do decide to seek the help of a behaviourist, then be aware that literally anyone can call themselves a behaviourist, and there are a lot of charlatans out there. Make sure you go for someone properly qualified (ideally APBC or CCAB accredited) and avoid anyone who talks about pack leadership / alpha dog type theories (yes Cesar Milan, I'm looking at you!) - it's a sign of someone who is scientifically decades out of date.

You need to rule out pain first so yep get a vet check.

Re meeting dogs - he is being very polite and telling you and the dogs he wants more space so please ensure that he gets it. Reassurin will not do anything if he is in a situation that he is uncomfortable with. Just giving him space and having limited contact with dogs may be enough for him to relax over time.

If you do not give him space around other dogs he will have to deal with the situation himself and that will mean upping the anti and starting to lunge and bark etc. Equally if he is in pain he remembers being bundled by the other dog and the pain that it caused him.

"Yep do just let the poor fella eat." I would be well miffed if someone kept stroking my hair when I was tucking into my food. Put the food down step away and let him eat in peace.

Do get a vet check though!

@NeilBuchananisBanksy

Growling is good- he is telling you or other dogs that he's not happy. Far better that than him just going straight to biting. Perhaps look up online about dog body language.

Why are you interfering when he's eating? That could make him resource guard in the long run. He's telling you he dues by like it, so stop!!

Agree with this!

My dog is a bit of a growler but it means we can understand from his communication that he isn't happy in a situation and wants to be out of said situation.

I trained my dog to 'leave it' and give him some chicken when he comes to me. So when we are on walks and he starts barking or growling at other dogs (he hates most dogs) I say 'leave it' and he will turn to me and eat some chicken (ignoring the other dog). I don't know if this is the best way of training (I am not an expert) but it works for us as it stops my dog escalating too much when he sees a dog (otherwise he works himself up to a huge barking fit).

Also as a fellow small dog owner, do you find OP that people just laugh? When my dog growls, passers by just laugh at him because he is so tiny and make comments like 'you're no bigger than a sandwich'

Interesting ... going to find out more about resource guarding ... which he is clearly doing, but didnt used to do. The stroking him while he used to eat as a puppy did work... and I did it as we had young children in the house.

So it is likely that what I am doing is making it worse - or has made it worse. Going to read and reflect more on this. Sensible "desensitising" is clearly more subtle than what I had been lead to believe. And giving him more "valuable" food - eg raw meat - is a contributing factor ... he sees his normal kibble as very functional.

SlothMama could you expand on this With food wise I'll pick up my dogs bowls and replace it with a treat. But with a dog displaying aggression I wouldn't recommend trying to do this yourself..... When do you replace with a treat and why? And it's fine me doing this... I have in the past added things to his food bowl while he is eating, which in the past didnt trigger anything but now does... I am not concerned with him biting me, just the risk that he might bite someone in the future....Yup, I had learnt that taking his bowl away mid meal was good training....

Definitely going to do a vet check when out of lockdown.

Picking him up is fine - it's something he enjoys and gets him safely up the stairs... but I agree about not picking him up suddenly. It's very rare that I do this and in the past hasn't worried him. This could be as simple though as reminding him of the trauma of being picked up suddenly by the big dog that mauled him. So thanks - definitely sensible advice and something I will think about in future.

IF you do want to go near him when eating it should be to add high value food to what he is already eating. Then he learns that hands and people approaching his bowl good things happen.

So if eating kibble approach to add the meat broth/meat pieces BUT as he is showing signs of anxiety at the moment I would just leave him to it and let him chill out a bit for a few weeks

I do not recomment picking up dogs bowls ever never ever. This will just stress out dogs.

You can add to the bowl if you have to as mentioned above

THanks Avocado and Polly for really helpful posts... lots of food for thought.

Agree... going to let the little fella just chill for a bit and reassure him that if I approach when he is eating that its with something nice...

And going to look for those pre-growling communications....

Learning a lot - really appreciate the great advice on this forum!

My beagle isn’t a growler, but he is ridiculously friendly and assumes every dog / person / cat wants to play with him. (He’s young and very bouncy - he’d probably get a growl from your boy!). I’ve been working (indoors and out) on a simple ‘look at me’ command (with a piece of chicken and lots of praise as a reward) that I use whenever he gets distracted or over-excited when we’re out. At the moment my success rate is fairly low, but we’re improving! Something like this - or the ‘leave it’ command that an earlier poster mentioned may work for you?

(There’s also bound to be a Zack George YouTube video on growling and/or resource guarding. He has a much more loving approach to dog training than Cesar Milan, who I tend to steer clear of).

Just watched Avocado's 15 minute Ladder of Aggression video... WOW!!! Turned everything I thought I knew on its head and I want to apologise to the wee fella... Lots of the things I thought were good training for him were increasing the stress by making him feel unlistened to....

Going to go back to some new basics now!

@loveyouradvice

Just watched Avocado's 15 minute Ladder of Aggression video... WOW!!! Turned everything I thought I knew on its head and I want to apologise to the wee fella... Lots of the things I thought were good training for him were increasing the stress by making him feel unlistened to....

Going to go back to some new basics now!

Your post has made my day Glad to have been able to help!

Please stop touching him while he's eating. He needs to be left alone when he eats his meals. Put his food down, get him to wait, leave the room and let him eat in peace. Like PP said, the growling is potentially resource guarding and a sign that he's stressed. Adding yummy bits to his bowl is not something I would even consider trying at the moment, as he could think you're going to take things off him and try and bite. I think he needs a good month (at least) of being left alone in peace to eat all his meals, treats etc.

Also, please stop picking him up. I know he's small and it's tempting but dogs generally don't like being picked up, especially with no warning. Imagine being that size and someone 20x your height looms over you and grabs you with no warning? You'd be terrified. You say he enjoys it but how do you know that? Dogs aren't cats and shouldn't really be picked up and lifted unless it's absolutely necessary. Unless it's absolutely necessary to lift them (eg. to get them in the car or up stairs, and even then I would use a ramp over lifting) please try and avoid it.

Also, growling is generally the last resort before a bite. Take a look at the ladder of aggression. There will be subtle signs you're missing (lip licking, avoiding eye contact, ears back, for example) which occur before he even gets to the point of growling. It could be that you've ignored all these in the past so now he feels he has no choice. Growling is a dogs way of saying "fuck off, leave me alone NOW".

If you think he's hungry, you can fill his meals out with vegetables to help him feel fuller too. Best of luck going forward.