Advice about buying a puppy please

[katedan]

Hi we viewed some puppies last weekend and put a deposit down on one of them. When researching what information to ask a breeder when you view it said to ask for the details of their vet to phone and check with the vet that the mum is healthy. I asked for the details when I viewed and was told she would send them through, I have asked again this week when she sent a photo through of the puppy we have reserved and she has not responded. Do you think this is suspicious? Did you all check with the breeders vet before having a puppy? They are not cheap so I want to make sure everything is legit, we saw the puppy with his siblings and mum and everything looked OK but it is hard to know.

Never contacted parents vets but I did see and get copies of the DNA tests that were done on both mum and dad to prove certain genetic conditions could not be passed down.

My contract also allowed a full return if my vet found any health conditions in the puppy within the first week after we picked him up.

Beyond that I recommend a good pet insurance lifetime policy.

As soon as we enquired about a pup, our breeder pointed out a minor and apparently common injury the pup got at birth. They said it was just cosmetic and wouldn't cause a problem but we wanted reassurance. We asked to speak to the vet to confirm and they couldn't have been more accommodating. They arranged for the vet to check the pup the next day then put us in touch with him for an update. Not sure we'd have asked if it hadn't been for the injury but they completely understood our apprehension and didn't have a problem with it. They were so upfront and open about the injury from the start and had no issue with speaking to the vet which gave us loads of comfort. I'm not sure what the done thing is but I'd have been nervous if they'd resisted or been evasive. We don't have our pup yet (collecting next week) but she's getting a health check before leaving and comes with full vets paperwork. Perhaps they'll give you all the info you need then?

Surely you're not taking the pup so early that the "breeder" hasn't done early vaccinations? You also know the area they are in - you could phone round the local vets? I would be very suspicious of this - did you see the mother of the puppy? can you talk to other people who have bought dogs from this breeder? Any decent breeder would put you in touch with other buyers, let you see pup with mum, and check you out too (garden, walks, fenced garden etc). You have the UK bastards who do puppy farming (where the bitch either dies of exhaustion or gets shot when past it) and the rest of the bastards who ship in from Europe ... often puppies who have grave problems because they haven't been wormed, properly fed, have an endemic disease like listeriosis - and they die on your hands.

Most breeders don't vaccinate before the puppy leaves - different vets have different protocols. The only puppy we've ever had who arrived vaccinated was 12 weeks old and her breeder is local to us and uses the same vet that we do.

I've never checked with a breeder's vet. If everything else looks legit it's probably not a big deal but the failure to respond would make me a bit . It's not a hard thing to do - I know our vets number off by heart, I ring it so often with our menagerie.

Perhaps give it a few days and then call the breeder to thank her for the photo and then add something along the lines of, Oh, by the way, the vet info, I'm a novice at this puppy lark and want to get everything right.

It's possible that the breeder doesn't want all her buyers phoning the vet as they're incredibly busy at the moment, but she could just say that.

I don't know what you need from the breeders vet. They can't give you any information about the mum as its confidential. I understand why breeder took a step back!
If mum & dad are KC registered, ask for her name and check out the health tests.

When you get your puppy, you should get the vets address with microchip details. But once again all they can give you is information about your own dog.

I'd be more suspicious that someone has had a litter without already knowing they had good homes To go to. legit breeders should have waiting lists. was this an accidental litter?

I’ve never heard of anyone calling the vet about the mum surely you just need to see any certificates for the health tests etc . If you are buying a dog from parents that have not had the correct health testing then speaking to the vet would be a waste of time anyway .

That's odd.
I wouldn't necessarily want to speak to the vet but I don't know any dog owners who wouldn't say " I always go to X Vet in Y Town" without having to think about it and certainly wouldn't be going off to look it up and text it to you.

legit breeders should have waiting lists
Plenty of perfectly good breeders don't have waiting list. I know of a litter born in the last year, both parents hip scored, sire a field trial winner, advertised on ChampDogs. I don't doubt the breeder had homes for some of the litter, but that didn't mean he had homes lined up for them all.

Thank you for the responses. We did see pup with mum and it will have its vaccinations before we take it away. Dad is KC registered and we will get a copy of his papers but mum is not. It is their first litter so no previous pup owners to speak to. If speaking to the vet is not the done thing what paperwork should I be asking to see before we pick him up?

What breed is the puppy?

Tbh I wanted a KC pedigree puppy because I wanted to know the heritage and be assured of the breed. If mum isn't registered I would want to know why and why they were breeding from her?

You can use the KC site to find what health conditions the breed is susceptible too and what DNA checks or things like hip scores are recommended.

It would be unusual to speak to the breeder's vet (and creates a GDPR nightmare for the surgery) and a vet health check is limited to a snapshot of the dog's health on presentation; most importantly you should expect to see the results of breed-specific health testing for both parents, with the aim of reducing the chances of hereditary conditions occurring in your puppy.

For the KC registered parent these are a matter of public record and you can simply look them up on the KC website; for the non-registered parent you will need to rely on the breeder to supply copies. I would also want to know the reasons that mum is not KC registered and why they bred this litter anyway.

if she's not even registered they're just breeding for cash and not in the interest if bettering the breed etc - that would be enough of a red flag to me

So it’s likely @katedan that you are buying a puppy where one or possibly both of the parents have not had the relevant health testing done , therefore you are taking a big risk and speaking to a vet about the mother’s current health is immaterial . What breed / cross is it and someone will probably be able to point you to which test results to ask for .

If the pups dad is KC registered he can be checked on database so ask for details. If mum is not KC Registered then the pup is not a pedigree.

It is a labrador retriever, we are not worried about being pedigree as we would never be looking to breed from him, I had never considered that none pedigree dogs should not be bred from ( as you can tell we are very new to this) like a lot of puppies this year they are asking a lot of money for the puppies so I think it is fair to say this is money driven as opposed to any other reason. As we have met and paid a deposit the kids will be heartbroken if we pull out, they are vaccinated and microchipped before they leave and we get paperwork to show this and dads certificate of pedigree and the details of the worming treatment etc. It is so hard as we have waited to not get a puppy in the last lockdown as people were,breeding dogs to make money but we fell in love with them and maybe did not look for red flags!

No hip or elbow scoring in breeding labradors is a massive red flag and a huge gamble to take with a puppy's health.

There are reasons why the mum isn't KC registered and it could be:
-She isn't a purebred lab
-Her mum was too old or too young to have a litter registered, or she had too many litters to be registered

It may be that you're not bothered about KC papers, but you're buying a 'pedigree' dog without being able to trace the pedigree. It's an expensive gamble in dog health.

This is why people are charging stupid amounts for crosses OP States ' we are not worried about pedigree' WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU NOT CARE you are paying a stupid price for a dog you don't care whether is purebred or not have i stepped onto a different planet or what

She seen you coming ££££££££ preying on the desperate

I think OP is just looking for a nice family pet, which Labradors generally are, so she doesn't necessarily need it to be a pedigree.

I am sure she is paying a lot of money, but almost all puppies are expensive at the moment, pedigree or not. The going rate for a popular family-type pup (labrador/golden retriever/cocker spaniel/cavalier or a cross of one of these breeds) seems to be £2.5-3K. The prices are extortionate but people are paying them, so...

My colleague got a Lab pup at the beginning of the year - KC reg but Mum didn't have any health tests done.

Pup has now been diagnosed with terrible hips, is struggling to walk normally and will need extensive surgery if he's to have any sort of normal life.

I wouldn't dream of buying a lab from anyone who isn't breeding from registered dogs and several generations of healthy, checkable pedigrees.

To be fair though, I would never buy a dog from a breeder as I only get rescues.

I've had 4 rescue dogs, all of whom have settled in within days and become part of the family instantly. I've never had to mop up accidents or found anything chewed. I've never had to lead-train or crate-train. I like ready-to-go dogs and my rescues have all been exactly that.

Thank you for your feedback, yes we just want a family dog and as you can tell we are new to this so your advice is helpful, I guess we have been naive as I thought most dogs were not pedigree and this was OK.

So is the dog a Lab crossed with a Retriever? That’s an ok cross if both parents are health checked but both breeds are prone to joint issues so it would worry me if they weren’t

@katedan just ensure that you have top of the range insurance in place from day 1 .