Should we get our dog neutered? Not sure what to do

[Buddytheelf85]

Hi

We have a 22 month old Lab. He is intact.

He’s generally friendly and affectionate with humans (I say ‘generally’ because he barks at anyone approaching the front door and growls if he’s physically disturbed while sleeping. He’s very friendly to the visitor once the front door is open though.)

He’s also pretty well behaved. His recall is good and he’s very well behaved in the house.

Around two months ago he was attacked by another dog and sustained some puncture wounds to the face. They healed well without stitches.

He’s been very tricky with other dogs lately. It’s hard to say whether it started with the attack - I think it started before then but it’s definitely got worse since then. It feels like every time we take him on a walk he gets in a fight with another dog. We try to keep him away from other dogs, but that isn’t always possible - the fights still occur if another dog approaches him.

He goes out on walks with a walker who’s also a behaviourist and she’s been having to walk him by himself, rather than with the other dogs.

She’s recommended that we neuter him. She thinks the problem is largely hormonal. My husband is reluctant to neuter him, as he is worried it will make the problem worse.

Has anyone got any experience/advice?

Thank you.

Why would you not have him neutered?

That's a genuine question rather than a goady one!

Neutering male labs has shown to have an increased risk of some cancers and joint problems. So I do get why op is questioning.

Op I would do lots of reading and see what you think. Neutering isn’t an instant fix, you still need to do training. The behaviourist doesn’t sound properly accredited if this is the advice she’s giving.

I would definitely have him nuetered.

What qualifications does your behaivourist have?

It is generally NOT recommended to castrate a dog for behavioural issues. The drop in testosterone usually makes the situation worse

Research has shown the ONLY behaviour castration may help is scent marking.

Well, I want to. But my husband is concerned that the cause of his anxiety and aggression around other dogs isn’t hormonal, it’s resulted from the attack, and that having him neutered could make it worse. He thinks that all it will do is stop other dogs coming into his space, but won’t solve the problem of his aggression.

He’s slightly anxious by nature and our walker/behaviourist initially advised us to wait as long as possible to have it done, because she said it could make his anxiety worse.

Talk to your vet. You could try a short acting implant 3 -6 months, which mimics neutering and will let you determine if his behaviour is affected.
I am no behaviourist but my observation with my own lab was that other neutered dogs reacted to him being intact and after being set on a couple of times, he was proactive in the aggression, if you see what I mean. He was and is a submissive male, and this appeared to be nervous aggression.
We live in the suburbs surrounded by other dogs, so after trying the implant we went for the op. Not sure I would again though - his behaviour is fine, but his health has suffered and he became food obsessed.

Generally cast rating nervous dogs will make them more nervous so if this aggression stems from fear it could get worse.

Why is he still meeting other dogs though if he’s so clearly telling you he hates it? If he’s fighting every day walks must be so stressful for him. He needs to be on lead, away from other dogs and learning that other dogs won’t approach or hurt him or this problem will keep escalating.

Talk to your vet. You could try a short acting implant 3 -6 months, which mimics neutering and will let you determine if his behaviour is affected.
I am no behaviourist but my observation with my own lab was that other neutered dogs reacted to him being intact and after being set on a couple of times, he was proactive in the aggression, if you see what I mean. He was and is a submissive male, and this appeared to be nervous aggression.
We live in the suburbs surrounded by other dogs, so after trying the implant we went for the op. Not sure I would again though - his behaviour is fine, but his health has suffered and he became food obsessed.

Ok, this is interesting, it would be good to trial something non-permanent and non-invasive first, given there’s a risk it could make his behaviour worse. I’ll suggest this to my husband.

Our dog is already food obsessed (although very slim).

We do try to keep him away from other dogs - including walking him late at night and early in the morning and in the quietest areas we know - but we live in a suburban area and it just isn’t feasible to keep him away from other dogs entirely.

But the broad range of answers on this thread clearly suggests this isn’t a clear cut one!

I was also going to suggest the implant whilst normally it is just injected into the scruff like a regular injection. It can be placed on the inner thigh where it can be nicked out if behaviour worsens with it.

Posted to soon it should also be combined with behavioural management techniques.

Your dog should be muzzle trained immediately and walked only with a muzzle on. Why should he be allowed to interfere with and potentially injure other dogs?

I would get a trainer in to help as it does sound like dead aggression- my sheltie was attacked by the same giant wolf hybrid- up til then he was happy go lucky- he gradually became more reactive- he will do anything for food so I used a technique I had read up on and it took about 6 months but it worked. My dog was neutered before this incident

Fear aggression not dead! Bloody autocorrect

We had our lab neutered at 18 months. He became quite aggressive with other male dogs.
Neutering did largely stop this but he was never again keen on other males but we were able to distract him with his ball (obsessed!). The implant sounds like a great idea to 'try before you buy'

I agree with your DH in that the problem probably stems from his attack, he’s fearful and neutering can make fearful dogs worse
BUT
Entire male dogs can be a target for other male dogs, neutering can stop other males having a go.
It’s also true that neutering before maturity is linked to bone cancer in labs.
Hard one.

I’d really think about it. I had a similar issue and for various reasons, after weighing everything up got mine neutered.

I wish I hadn’t. If anything he’s slightly worse - he’s also starting to put on weight and become greedy which he wasn’t before. I’ve seen only downsides

I neutered my dog and he became more nervous/ reactive. I agree with PP it might be worth trying temporary chemical castration and see what effect it has. Every dog's different.

Gosh I’m so confused now!

Wish I had avoided this thread

It really is a tough call in your situation. I normally sit firmly in the "always neuter" camp, and it's true that it does usually reduce the frequency of other dogs challenging them.

But since it can also make a fearful dog more fearful, the implant seems like a good thing to try.

@PollyRoulson

What qualifications does your behaivourist have?

It is generally NOT recommended to castrate a dog for behavioural issues. The drop in testosterone usually makes the situation worse

Research has shown the ONLY behaviour castration may help is scent marking.

I came on here to say all of this.

OP - literally anyone can call themselves a behaviourist (or trainer) - the terms aren't legally protected. I once had an NDN who told me he'd quit his call centre job and was now a walker and behaviourist. He didn't have a fucking clue what he was doing, at even the most basic level.

You need someone who is APBC or CCAB accredited, who can assess your dog, and teach you management techniques, alongside techniques to improve your dog's behaviour, and help discuss the pros and cons of castration
apbc.org.uk/help/regions
www.asab.org/ccab-register

Svelteinmydreams I looked into the implant when I was considering whether to neuter my golden retriever (I decided not to in the end) and my understanding was the implant dissolves in the body and can't be removed? That was quite a few years ago though so technology might have changed.

@Buddytheelf85

Definitely trial the suprelorelin implant first before castrating (your 'behaviourist' should have suggested this already)

It eliminates the male sex hormones for an approx 6 month period so will let you know the type of impact neutering may or nay not have on your dog.

@Helgathehairy that was the case with our dog, would have been about 6 years ago.
He had it in the scruff of his neck , but another poster suggested inner thigh might be removable. In addition I think you may get shorter acting ones.
It’s a tough choice as clearly the hormones are there for a reason, but in our case it was simply to make life less stressful for him, based on the wider environment. If we lived rurally, I may have made a different decision.

Before you do anything chemical or surgical, can I reccommend that you join the Reactive Dogs UK fb group and have a read of the CARE files.. it is a protocol for helping your dog overcome their reactivity (regardless of initial cause)..plus there is a wealth of experience there and some very helpful (and knowledgeable) folk. and they can put you in touch will a fully qualified behaviourist wherever you live.

I have had such excellent advice and support from there and my girl who had become highly reactive following a series of unfortunate events, is now 90% better that she was 6 months ago.

Work with the reactivity before you make any neutering decisions..as others have said, if it is fear reactivity (and it sounds like it) neutering is not the magic bullet and may make it worse.