How common is aggression in dogs?

[Lavenderteal271]

Our dog is 14 months old. He's shown aggressive traits since he was 8 months. Mainly fear based but also now territorial. We've been working with a behaviourist but I think this is something we'll always have to manage.

I have very little experience of dogs and I'm just wondering how unlucky we've been here. It's pretty gutting that the family pet we'd waited for for so long has these issues.

Just re-reading what you have said about him reacting to visitors to the house, A trick I use here is to meet visitors for a short walk outside with him and then come into the house together after, he's not reactive then as he doesn't have the same sense of someone encroaching into a space he is already occupying.

I can do the same thing by having him out in the garden whilst getting visitors in. As long as they are there first and he is entering a space where they are already present the problems are vastly decreased.

Totally agree with establishing a calm authority. The psychologist we worked with said food and sleep are the most important things. We had to feed our dog between our feet, and let him sleep in our room. No sofa access and body blocking when required to move him from any situation in the house. When he realised we were in charge, he changed beyond recognition.

For some dogs it’s enough to realise that they don’t need to protect themselves as you will protect them is what she said

Thank you for the suggestions. He is much better with DH, none of this has worried DH though, he's a very calm person so I'm sure the dog does pick up on my anxieties.

We do have a soft crate for him and we enforce 3 hours of alone time most days. He settles very well on his own. The behaviourist told us it's really important he gets plenty of rest and he never really switches off when we're all milling about so we pop him in the kitchen after a good walk and he gets a really good nap. Funnily enough the bite to DS came after 2 weeks of us all being at home for half term and despite our best efforts to give him quiet time, he can still hear when we're about.

My (rescue) dog was very frightened of children when I first got her and would growl, bark and snap at them if they came anywhere near us or ran towards us. Having discovered this, I gave all children a wide berth on walks and she was never off lead if there were any children within sight (her recall is quite good so I could call her back to put the lead on if any appeared). She herself would try to keep well away from them and, when forced to be near to them (because of geography of location), she would get shaky and frightened. I have never told her off (as it is fear) and have always reassured her when we have to walk past children. Over the next couple of years, she became much more confident and can now walk past children/near children without any problem, though she keeps an eye on them and I am careful to stop any child wanting to stroke her. I think your dog can largely get over this (obviously you would always have to keep him on a lead near children). I would say the territorial thing is also fear-based. If you can get him to get slowly used to the children issue (you keeping unknown children well away from him is absolutely key), I think there is a good chance he will feel safer and dealing with his other issues will be easier. I don't know how big/small he is, but my dog is generally friendly or else just ignores other dogs apart from GSDs and large dark-coloured dogs, who she will usually snap at if they come close to her because she wants them to get away from her. I think this is quite normal for lots of dogs and not aggression as such - you should just make sure he doesn't have to meet those kind of dogs close to and reassure him when you see them coming into sight. Honestly, 14 months is still very young - I think you can improve his behaviour much more over the coming months with patience and perseverance with the rewarding of calm behaviour when he is in fearful situations that you cannot entirely avoid.

What's 'body blocking?' Standing in front of them? Blocking the way I guess?

Our dog trainer (not the behaviourist) did say I was very good with him and brought out the best in him. I think the problem I've had is not knowing how to handle his reaction and therefore not taking action quickly enough, not reading his body language quick enough. Its a learning curve and I've felt a step behind but I am getting there.

Just to big him up a bit. I've taken him out now, he had a run around off lead in a secure empty field then we walked through the outskirts of town. We went past 2 dogs, a child (we crossed the road) a school (no children out but we could hear them), lots of cars, bin lorry. He didn't react to any of them. He's great 99% of the time.

Yes, blocking the way, and making them move back as you move towards them to get them to leave the room. Ie not touching them/pushing them and risking being bitten.

Yes I'd agree with the body blocking, I think that's what I have been doing without realising it. The vast majority of bites are to the fingers/ hands, so you want to ideally encourage your dog to be so strong on commands you can get him to do what you want without touching him, but if that's not happening then using your whole body creates less of a target for snapping. (Or having the long lead on constantly at home is another great suggestion from a previous poster, so you can lead him away without getting close.)

Sometimes my dog gets up on the sofa to sit on me when I would rather he didn't (not a problem when he is awake and playful, but if he becomes sleepy he could snap if disturbed) If he doesn't follow my instruction to 'Get off', which is 90% successful, I will use my whole body to manoeuvre him off, I won't touch him with a hand.

There is no way on earth I would ever body block a dog especially a fearful dog.

The behaviourist I have consulted is well respected by our vets. The vets prescribed Amiltriptyaline

@PollyRoulson

There is no way on earth I would ever body block a dog especially a fearful dog.

Why not? It depends on the scenario but it can be a very effective technique. What if you had a dog prone to guarding and someone had dropped a chicken carcass in the kitchen? 3 years ago my dog would have been desperate to pick that up and wolf it down and would be unlikely to respond to commands in the presence of such a high value item or let anyone near him to retrieve it. We'd be off to vets afterwards if that was the case. I would certainly have been body blocking my dog from entering the space where it had been dropped to prevent that happening.

Sorry checking on the spelling and posted too soon. Amitriptyline 25mg, 4 tablets a day after communicating with the behaviourist.

We also have 'control bowls' - just an empty lightweight aluminium kitchen bowl as saying 'no' seemed cause stress/adrenaline release and to escalate any issue. When he was already stressed we had to find a way of de- escalating whilst stopping the unwanted behaviour without having to resort to putting him in a different room so that he could learn to control his own behaviour. Still used to remove bones he doesn't want to give up, get him to leave the lounge and go out for a last wee at the end of an evening etc. He knows that resistance is futile if you are holding a 'control bowl' even though it's 'power' is purely totemic.

We did food scatters and scenting and used a clicker to reward good choices rather than giving too many verbal commands. Hours and hours of teaching him how to settle. YouTube has videos.

Over time his stress levels and hyper vigilance has decreased so that he is more relaxed and so less reactive. He used to have 0-60 in a split second - fine one minute and then suddenly reacting to an unexpected trigger. So we can relax more and aren't walking on eggshells all the time or constantly scanning the horizon on walks.

He has also switched from dry dog food. I can't comment on bought raw food as we live rurally and he eats deer meat and bones provided by our neighbour and the local gamekeeper. I used to be squeamish but I can now butcher a carcass in no time. Grim, I know, I just pretend I am readying myself for the zombie apocalypse.

@Derbee

My advice to be to ignore the previous comment about Rehoming. Too many rescues are full because people give up on their pets

I know it’s an unpopular opinion on here but I think if there was less romanticism about dog ownership then dogs (and us) would be in a much better place.

Instead of wasting time, effort, money and love on an aggressive dog, who will spend most of its life in some state of anxiety, aggression, fear and turmoil and can never be trusted (which is sad for both owners and dog) they should be put to sleep.

They harm humans and other dogs in great numbers every year in the UK, cost god knows what and take up spaces in rescues that could be given to relaxed/loving dogs.

I know it’s the current fashion for owners to flagellate and punish themselves (and their dc) by leaving a frightened and aggressive animal in their home, usually from some guilt or idea that they can ‘do their best’. Spare yourself , pts (rehoming is just kicking the can and chickening out of doing the right thing so you feel better) always find a reputable breeder and get the family dog you can walk and trust not to bite children.

If breeding was a hell of a lot more regulated that would be a start, but it is what it currently is.

And before you start the dog doesn’t know it is being pets, they won’t suffer or be aware of what is happening at all.

The emotional turmoil and pain around pts is human felt only.

suggestionsplease1 you have an over aroused dog and do not want it to bite your fingers so you stand in front of it?

All that will do is increase the arousal of the dog, increase frustration or fear. I always want to bring down arousal in my dogs. If a dog is highly aroused it will learn nothing. Also I do not want to transfer the bite area from my hands to my body

KeepOnKeepingOnAgainandAgain what did you do with the "control bowls"?

I agree with Babdoc, dogs are natural predators, aggression is part of their DNA
Would you say the same about cats..?
The comment prior about wolves aswell, wolves are insanely nervous animals!
They are not the super confident, savage beasts they are portrayed as.
So much so that wolf hybrids (where it’s legal to keep them obviously) are often too terrified to even leave the house let alone meet anyone ‘new’

That said, it does seem to me the rate of ‘problem’ dogs is increasing, with an estimated just over 8 million dogs, although still tiny, a quarter of a million is a scary thought, for me anyway.

But I don’t think it’s anything to do with them being predators nor I do think it’s much to do with breed.
I personally think the rise coincides with poor breeding choices for looks (show breeders) and poor breeding choices for profit (puppy farmers/commercial breeders/dealers/bad hobby breeders).

I feel for you. We had a reactive terrier for 13 hard years and when he died last year weren’t going to get another dog. My kids who are older now look back and laugh at his many many exploits!
Fast forward to this February and we got a
second dog. He’s a Romanian rescue and was shut down for weeks. He was described as calm and gentle which he very much is. However, Six months later he gets on great with the family, loves our other dog, but has developed reactivity issues. I feel very sad as our other dog has now had two reactive ‘siblings’ and yet again her walks have had to be take in quiet places! We love him and will work with him to help him make choices (not to lunge and bark!)- it’s definitely fear based and he’s decided that lunging will help him get rid of the scary thing!
It’s hard work that’s for sure but can be rewarding when they ‘get it’!

Re 'control bowls' - I didn't 'do' anything. The presentation of the bowl was simply the response to unwanted behaviour. Eg he might be barking at you to get attention - bowl rather than positive or negative attention. Bowl = no attention. He would stop dead, stare at the floor whilst processing - WTF - and was then rewarded. He would then try again - bowl. No words, nothing. Sigh, stop, reward. Eventually he would give up and go sit on his rug. Reward. No words.

At the start it was every 30 seconds because he was very boisterous and wanted to rule the roost but he likes to know the rules and likes to be rewarded.

I don't want this to turn into a debate about dogs being PTS. As I said previously I'm very new to dog ownership, i don't really have an opinion on it either way but from my personal experience it would feel very wrong to have a 14 month old who has growled and bitten someone without even causing a red mark PTS. That's my thoughts about my dog. Everyone has their own limits though. Some wouldn't tolerate that, others are prepared to support far worse.

What training technique works for one dog may not work for another. It is better going to a qualified behaviourist who will assess your dog individually its health , home etc and come up with a plan to help you.
Make sure the behaviourist is qualified Google their certificates and qualifications. You may have to travel as you need 1&1 which is difficult with covid regulations.

@Sitdowncupoftea

What training technique works for one dog may not work for another. It is better going to a qualified behaviourist who will assess your dog individually its health , home etc and come up with a plan to help you. Make sure the behaviourist is qualified Google their certificates and qualifications. You may have to travel as you need 1&1 which is difficult with covid regulations.

RTF the op has seen a behaviourist and is making very sensible decisions.

from my personal experience it would feel very wrong to have a 14 month old who has growled and bitten someone without even causing a red mark PTS.

Yes, every owner of every dog that has eventually seriously harmed an adult/ child/ another dog usually says the same thing.

It graduates from:

‘He’s never done anything like this before’
‘Well, he never broke the skin before.’
‘It’s never been a deep bite before.’
‘He’s never gone for the face before...’

There are a horde of badly bred dogs around at the moment.

It isn’t their fault but the humans knowingly letting them live most of their life in a state of fear and anxiety (even if you hire all the behaviourists you want you will never get a calm and happy dog) are certainly not morally superior to those who pts at the first sign of aggression.

One is an act of kindness and socially responsible, the other is a result of wanting to feel like the ‘good guy’ and putting their own emotions above the dog and their own families (and potentially future canine or human victims) well being.

@PollyRoulson

suggestionsplease1 you have an over aroused dog and do not want it to bite your fingers so you stand in front of it?

All that will do is increase the arousal of the dog, increase frustration or fear. I always want to bring down arousal in my dogs. If a dog is highly aroused it will learn nothing. Also I do not want to transfer the bite area from my hands to my body

KeepOnKeepingOnAgainandAgain what did you do with the "control bowls"?

Not in the scenario I mentioned no, the body blocking is done with the aim of preventing the dog from getting to a resource or a location where it will guard, It's arousal levels are low until that point, and only increase when it has the location or resource it wants. When it establishes ownership of the location or the resource its arousal increases as it attempts to preserve control of that. Up until that point the resource or the location is 'fair game' for all - in my dog's perception at least.

That's been my experience with dogs anyway; the body blocking safely prevents that scenario from developing. I think it's rare for a dog to land a bite on a thigh blocking them rather than on fingers reaching out to stop them. I've never worked with an extremely aggressive dog however and this has always worked effectively for my dog.

@PollyRoulson if the OP is under the advice of a behaviourist then she is better following the behaviourists advise. Some training techniques don't happen overnight.

Put to sleep for one bite that didn't leave a mark? That's insane. They are carnivores with teeth and no hands. Of course there will be aggression from dogs. Putting to sleep every dog that showed aggression is not fundamentally understand what a dog is. I agree there are some properly unstable dogs about who will never be safe but that's not what's being described.