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The doghouse

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Original poster

Puppy training and biting

20 replies

WhoKnew19 · 21/10/2020 13:11

Our 13 week old pup starts training classes this weekend. Recommendation from a friend and all looks very gentle and reward based which is good. The trainer has just sent an email though saying that any puppy biting or humping another dog/owner or trainer will be banned. I am now really, really nervous as our pup is the classic land shark at the moment. She seems to have no bite inhibition at all, just gets very, very excited when playing. We are going to get banned, aren't we?!

OP posts:

BiteyShark · 21/10/2020 13:15

Umm I would be wondering why I was going to that trainer tbh if they simply ban dogs for behaviours they don't want rather than train you how to stop/redirect them.

PollyRoulson · 21/10/2020 13:17

Do not go to this trainer. A trainer needs to see behaviours to help owners deal with them.

Most all puppies will go through stages of biting. Blimey it makes me stressed just thinking about going to a puppy class and my dog must not do something! Way too much hassle - if you need help finding a new trainer yell

copperoliver · 21/10/2020 13:18

Bless you, when he bites you yep like his brothers and sisters would if he bit them. He will then get to know it's not except able, hopefully by the time you go he would have got the message. X

PollyRoulson · 21/10/2020 13:19

Also in these present climate classes are small so if she can not deal with a humping biting puppy the trainer really does need to rethink her career.

A small positive thing about covid is the smaller puppy classes, they are fantastic for owners, trainers and puppies.

Alexandernevermind · 21/10/2020 13:24

Can you say what the breed is without outing yourself? I have a gundog breed notorious for biting - the breed specific Facebook page is full of stories of that breed getting kicked out of puppy training. We are always recommending to go to a gundog trainer. May be a breed specific Facebook page is the way forward for you?

PalTheGent · 21/10/2020 13:53

A rubbish trainer can ruin a dog - leaving it with issues it'll take months/years to unpick.

This one has kindly prewarned you that they are rubbish so you can look elsewhere. Good of them, I think.

tabulahrasa · 21/10/2020 15:28

See...

It could say that just so they can ban the sort of owners who disrupt classes by letting their puppy run about causing chaos.

Just adding it as a slightly different viewpoint because a puppy wouldn’t usually get the opportunity to be biting or humping during a training class.

Original poster

WhoKnew19 · 21/10/2020 17:09

Thanks all! Dpup is a cross, a cockerpoo (Mumsnet heresy I know!) and we are following a consistent 3 step approach to the biting. Yelping to let her know she has hurt us (tends not to work as she thinks it is part of the game and carries on), then distracting with toys/teddies (works most of the time) and then putting her for a sleep in her crate if all else fails. If it gets to that point then it's generally our fault as we have missed the cues that she just needs to rest. From what I read on here the biting is all fairly normal behaviours for her age. Hopefully we are doing the right things to ensure she grows out of it.

All that being said, I am now nervous about the class at the weekend, thanks all for saying what I already thought. Also appreciate the alternative viewpoint from tabulahrasa, could be a general warning if they have had owners just let their pups go wild.

I think we will go for the first class and see what it's like. If I'm not happy then we will just walk out, as I won't risk the hard work we've done so far being undone. I will let you know if we get kicked out or not

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vanillandhoney · 21/10/2020 17:10

I wouldn't go to a class where a trainer said that, to be honest. Puppies mouth and jump - it's totally normal and if she's not prepared to deal with that kind of behaviour, she's in the wrong job!

PollyRoulson · 21/10/2020 17:25

It is good to see another viewpoint from tabulahrasa but tbh a trainer that can not control owners who disrupt a class is also a trainer I would not want to be involved in. I think it brings up more issues that weaken the trainers case.

Banning people from classes due to their dogs behaviour is just not ethical as a dog trainer. Offering an alternative training approach is, eg overwhelmed puppy a 121, reactive dog a different environment i a 1-2-1, use of barriers for distracted dogs etc.

OP Re the biting. As you have discovered it is not a good idea to yelp. Your puppy is already over aroused (hence the biting) and yelping just ups the excitement. Best to remove yourself from the situation, biting human goes and fun ends. Then as you have done bring down the energy by rest. You may also find the biting happens at certain times of the day and you can prevent it by getting the puppy to chill before they get too over aroused. Pop in a quiet safe place with a chew.

PollyRoulson · 21/10/2020 17:28

It is tempting to try to get kicked out tbh. See how bad you can be Whoknew19puppy be a real bad puppy and be all puppish and bitey. I wonder if you could train her to hump on command by the weekend.

Original poster

WhoKnew19 · 21/10/2020 18:52

Thanks Pollyroulson, you're making a lot of sense on all counts. I guess by putting her for a sleep we are sort of giving her the message that the fun stops but it's probably too late by the time we do it. She does love to chew and we have a good range of chews which do calm her down. The lickimat is also working. You are right about the trainer I fear.

Your last suggestion is very tempting

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tabulahrasa · 21/10/2020 23:46

I’m not a trainer btw.

Just, I’ve been to quite a few different training classes and was thinking, but why would that be an issue? As in, puppies are not just running round willy nilly, so it’s a bit of a weird rule.

Then thought about the classes I run for people (not dog related at all) where we’ve had to implement some weirdly specific rules due to one or two people and just wondered if that’s maybe happened there.

Original poster

WhoKnew19 · 22/10/2020 12:58

@tabulahrasa

I’m not a trainer btw.

Just, I’ve been to quite a few different training classes and was thinking, but why would that be an issue? As in, puppies are not just running round willy nilly, so it’s a bit of a weird rule.

Yes, definitely could be - I will let you know after the weekend! Thank you 🙂

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Paranoidmarvin · 22/10/2020 14:14

Who does puppy training classes and kicks dogs out for biting. Most weird thing I ever. Personally I wouldn’t go if they have stupid rules like that. When they do kick u out and they as you know .... all puppies bite you will just feel awful. And there will no need to be feeling that way. If u want a trainer I would always find one that does one on one training.

MaryLennoxsScowl · 22/10/2020 16:22

At the class I went to the puppies were always on leads unless we were practising recall, and then only one at a time. I was surprised to find the puppies weren’t allowed to play with each other but tbf they wouldn’t have learned anything if they had! But the trainer just told us to keep them on leads when we arrived and then explained when we were there.

Shambolical1 · 22/10/2020 20:41

If it's a training class, not a 'puppy party', your dog shouldn't be playing with other dogs, anyway, they should be learning to be calm and well behaved around other dogs which inevitably means on-lead work for most of the lesson.

That does sound so joyless but it really isn't!

Sounds to me like a warning that attending owners are to be responsible. Tiny pups can be easily hurt or spooked for life by the wrong sort of encounter in their early days of training and many owners don't know how to read dog body language, yet, to know when to say 'enough'.

Some trainers will not accept dogs with established behavioural issues into group classes immediately but will work with them on a one-to-one basis first; it's not fair to anyone in a group class if there is a very disruptive presence. That's unlikely to apply to very young pups though.

PetPositive · 23/10/2020 10:06

Hi,

I used to run training classes as part of the new Dogs Trust Dog Schools.

As everyone else has already said, this message from the trainer started alarm bells in my head. Firstly, you are going to training classes to get help and learn how to manage and prevent those behaviours so they shouldn't be expecting all new puppy owners to already have that under control. Puppy mouthing was one of the key things that we discussed with new owners during the course.

Secondly, as the trainer it is your responsibility to set up the class so that everyone is happy, comfortable and safe and if puppies are close enough to other dogs or people that they have the opportunity to mouth/hump then they are definitely going to be struggling to concentrate on any training! Unless it's during an off lead play session in which case you definitely can't be expected to control them!

I also just wanted to say that the steps you mention you have been using for mouthing may inadvertently be encouraging it. For some dogs, the yelping is hugely exciting and they think 'great, if I mouth this person they turn into a big squeaky toy'.
The theory behind this is that it's how littermates communicate if another puppy is being too rough, the trouble is puppies do not see us as another dog.
Also, depending on how quickly you are redirecting onto toys, they may learn 'if I bite this person then they play with me'.

I'm not sure if this link will work but there's loads of advice on Dogs Trust's website, including this video regarding puppy mouthing www.dogstrust.org.uk/help-advice/training/stop-your-dog-biting-chewing-mouthing

Best of luck with it all!

Original poster

WhoKnew19 · 23/10/2020 13:33

Thanks everyone.

PetPositive that link is really helpful, thank you! I have sent it to DH too and we are going to go through it later today. We so want to do the best by WhoPup, she is so lovely, we don't want to set her off on the wrong track.

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Jeremyironseverything · 24/10/2020 11:24

We have taught our 12 week I'd puppy the word off when biting our clothes and inadvertently getting us. 90% of the time it works and she gets a treat. The rest of the time she's so excited she can't/won't hear us. I'm hoping this strategy will work long term?
Any thoughts? I don't want to be teaching her that she gets a treat if she decides to grab our clothing. We started by immediately giving her a treat the second she backed off from our hand with the treat in, after we'd said off.

Other times we command sit and then she gets a treat. This seems to mostly work too. It's too soon to know it's long term effect.

I would find another puppy class if I were you op. They should be advertising they'll help with this story of issue.

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