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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

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Original poster

To spay or not to spay a shy girl?

24 replies

Springersrock · 19/10/2020 09:24

We have an 18 month old springer.

The plan always was to have her spayed. She was originally booked in for the op in May but lockdown happened so it was cancelled.

We’ve been waiting for her second season so op is now planned for December.

However, we’ve been talking to our vet and between ourselves and having a good read and are having second thoughts

Doggo is very calm and very laid back but she’s also very shy and timid - literally scared of her own shadow sometimes so I’m not entirely sure having her spayed is actually the best idea.

Vet has said it’s best to have it done on this cycle before she’s 2 so we need to decide what we’re going to do over the next few weeks

Any advice or experiences please

Thank you!

OP posts:

OuiOuiKitty · 19/10/2020 09:29

Oh I'm so glad you asked this! We have an 8 month old who is due to be spayed but like yours she is so timid and scared. I know the whole experience is going to be traumatic for her. She is scared when anyone but us goes near her. I was considering asking if there is doggy valium or something we can give her prior to going in? As far as I'm aware spaying is important to help prevent certain cancers so it is something we want to do but I am worried about the affect it will have on her.

Specialkay1983 · 19/10/2020 09:35

It’s entirely a personal choice but I didn’t have my springer spaniel bitch spayed and she ended up with closed pyometra which resulted in an emergency operation so if I had another bitch, I would definitely get her spayed.

1starwars2 · 19/10/2020 09:43

There's lots of detailed research on spaying and there is no simple answer, but early spaying can definitely have life long negative consequences.

moosemama · 19/10/2020 10:29

The more recent research on spaying and neutering is breed specific, although only covers 35 breeds, but English Springer Spaniel is one of the ones that was covered.

This is the specific paragraph relating to ESS.

“ English Springer Spaniel
The study population was 52 intact males, 57 neutered males, 37 intact females, and 66 spayed females for a total sample of 212 cases. In males and females left intact, the occurrence of one or more joint disorders was 5 and 8 percent, respectively. Among males and females neutered at various ages, there were no noteworthy increases in joint disorders. The cancers followed occurred in the intact males and females at a 6 percent level, and neutering at any age was not associated with any evident increase in this measure in either sex. In intact females, MC was diagnosed in 6 percent, and for those spayed at 2–8 years, 15 percent. PYO was not reported in any of the intact females. Spaying females at 6–11 mo. was associated with a 13 percent occurrence of UI, which may have reached significance with a larger sample size. Lacking a noticeable occurrence of increased joint disorders or cancers in neutered males, those wishing to neuter should decide on the appropriate age. For females, given the increased risk of UI in those spayed before 1 year, the suggested guideline is to delay spaying until a year of age.”

So, from there findings, urinary incontinence is the main reason they would delay spaying of ESS.

This is the whole paper, which is a pretty easy read. It includes a table of breeds which has a quick guide to their findings.

Personally, having rescued a dog who then developed Pyometra before we could have her spayed, I would always have it done. (Very small sample I know, but I have had four bitches, all of different breeds/crosses, who spayed with no problems or affects on their personality.)

PollyRoulson · 19/10/2020 10:37

I absolutely would spay a bitch. I would be not castrate a timid dog.

However the health risks of spaying a bitch are head and shoulders above the behavioural effects of spaying. I would wait until at least a year which you have done.

PollyRoulson · 19/10/2020 10:37

health benefits!

MrsJunglelow · 19/10/2020 11:37

Definitely spay.
Female dogs are at big risk of pyometra, it’s common and life threatening.

vanillandhoney · 19/10/2020 12:00

I would always spay a bitch. The risk of pyometra increases with each season and it can be fatal if not spotted early enough.

Flibbertyjibbit · 19/10/2020 12:07

Our bitch had a phantom pregnancy after her first season. It was horrible to see her so distressed. As soon as she was recovered we had her spayed. I would spay any bitch we have in future too.

Original poster

Springersrock · 19/10/2020 12:08

Thanks all!

Spaying was always on the agenda, she would have been done by now if it weren’t for lockdown.

The vet has brought up his concerns on behavioural changes due to the fact that she’s already such a shy and timid wee girl.

I’m not too concerned about taking her to the vet, she did puppy training classes there so she’s used to going in. We had to wait in the car park while the vet took her in when she went for her jabs, she was unsure, but she’s been fine since

OP posts:

WhoWants2Know · 19/10/2020 12:19

Different breed, but I had a similar situation with a female whose spay op was unfortunately delayed and she went into a second season.

Since her first season was fairly mild, I was shocked at the effect a second season had on her. She was so distressed for weeks, crying and not in her right mind. If you took your eyes off her for a moment, she became Houdini and was desperate to break out of the house and just run.

Seeing her distress definitely gave me a new motivation for spaying, just to avoid seeing a dog in that sort of distress again.

vanillandhoney · 19/10/2020 12:57

The vet has brought up his concerns on behavioural changes due to the fact that she’s already such a shy and timid wee girl.

It sounds like it might be a bit of a balancing act, but for me it would be swayed by the fact that being timid won't kill her, but pyometra may very well do.

I had a female cat who had pyometra and she was very unwell with it. We caught it just in time but the only symptom she had was a tiny bit of discharge, and we only spotted it out of pure luck. Another 48h and she would probably have been dead. The vet who operated on her said it was the worst case she'd ever seen.

Also, bear in mind that the surgery for pyometra is much more invasive than a standard spay and she'll need a lot more "rest" time afterwards.

Original poster

Springersrock · 19/10/2020 16:13

Thanks!

It is a bit of a balancing act.

In my experience, vets are usually all for neutering, so for him to suggest we have a good think and weigh it up carefully has got me worried

OP posts:

vanillandhoney · 19/10/2020 16:22

@Springersrock

Thanks!

It is a bit of a balancing act.

In my experience, vets are usually all for neutering, so for him to suggest we have a good think and weigh it up carefully has got me worried

I really think it depends on the vet practise, but yes, definitely think about it. You could always let her have another season and maybe wait until she's two or three before deciding :)

MrsJunglelow · 19/10/2020 16:25

I’d consider changing vet tbh.

Spaying nervous bitch - worst case scenario bitch may be a little more nervous and fatter
Not spaying - worst case scenario bitch gets pyometra, not covered by insurance as it’s a preventable disease, cost can easily run into the thousands, significant probability of a dead dog....

Ultimatecougar · 19/10/2020 16:51

I don't have a dog, so this is purely academic, but does spaying induce hormone related issues in dogs like a hysterectomy with ovary removal does in a woman? I know surgical menopause can cause bone and heart issues in women, does this happen in other mammals? I know most other mammals don't go into menopause naturally.

PollyRoulson · 19/10/2020 16:56

From the behaviour point of view the studies I know about are from 2014 and 2018. They do show some bitches can be more nervous and have behaviour issues after spaying BUT most of them were spayed early before their first season and before they were 1 year old.

When I have a sec I will try and find out if there is more recent research on this. The link that Moosemama posted is concentrating on joint disorders, cancers and Urinary incontinence and not behaviour.

I would not change vet. I would be extremely grateful that he has raised this issue.

@MrsJungelow interestingly in the most recent research Springer Spaniels had no cases of Pyometera in spayed spaniels. 66 spayed spaniels used in the research.

vanillandhoney · 19/10/2020 17:05

@Ultimatecougar

Yes, spaying and neutering can cause hormone related issues. However, not spaying/neutering can also cause problems! It's not as simple as one way is right and the other is wrong, unfortunately.

It all depends on the dogs involved, their personality and how likely they are to develop certain conditions.

giantangryrooster · 19/10/2020 17:09

Haven't RTFT but just wanted to say that you can get a medical spray to test if it's the right thing for your dog.

GerardWay123 · 19/10/2020 17:51

I hate having my dogs spayed but after nearly losing our Golden Retriever to pyometra spaying is the only way to go unless you're a breeder.

StillMedusa · 19/10/2020 19:14

I'm having mine spayed in a month's time.. she is nervous and can be a bit grumbly at other dogs as she is scared (and VERY barky at the vet!) but her second season was so horrible for her.. I don't want to put her through another. She went from being dog friendly but a bit nervy to fear aggressive, anxious depressed... never again. She's still not quite herself but is a lot better than then so we are having her spayed soon (her season was beg of August) and keeping our fingers crossed!

I'm hoping to have laporoscopic spay to minimise the distress,

marydtf · 19/10/2020 19:31

Just had my little girl spayed - 10 days ago. She is nervous and growly at people and dogs she doesn't know. Vet who did pre-OP check the week before told me that 'getting her spayed was the least of her issues, I needed to work on her behaviour first'. My sister spoke to the vet (at same practice) that looks after her animals and was told 'what a silly thing to say' , that my dog hadn't tried to bite anyone and that 'being taken into a strange place by someone you don't know away from your human is extremely likely to cause a dog to display growly, anxious behaviour'.
My dog was booked in with a different vet to be spayed, I sat in the car with her while they jabbed her with a sedative and they waited until she was suitably out of it before taking her off me and into the surgery.
We went back for her check up 3 days later and although she still wasn't keen to see them, she didn't growl when her tummy was inspected.
As others have said, the potential pitfalls of not being spayed are massive and I'm very glad I did not take the 1st vet's opinion as gospel. Get a second opinion or change vet

Sitdowncupoftea · 27/10/2020 16:55

I have always had all my dogs male or female spayed or castrated accordingly. In my opinion if your not breeding them do it.

Sheepareawesome · 27/10/2020 17:08

That article linked to above is really interesting reading. We have a cocker and are planning to spay her when she is 7 months or so. However the research above seems to suggest leaving it until she is about 2yo. Hmm will definitely speak to the vet again! Don't want to breed from her but equally don't want to rush into things if it has a negative impact on her.

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