Show spaniel cocker/ springer Or working Labrador

[Redandblue11]

Hello all, we are looking for our first dog. We are a family, work but I do mostly from home, like outdoors etc, we live in a town, medium garden and access to green spaces and countryside.
I appreciate dogs nature depend on each individual temperament and how much training and consistency owners give them.
We are considering a show springer spaniel puppy, I wanted to know from experience owners what they are like, I read plenty so I expect to walk the dog morning and night and possibly have a dog walker some middays. I believe show types are more sedate than working types, is that true? Do they sit and chill at home? Can I leave the dog in the house for say 4 hs and not come back to a mess? Again I imagine it will depend on training etc, but is that a realistic expectation?
I have seen a few Labradors and they look more chilled, but I am slightly worried about their size, but working Labs seem smaller and the size could potentially be ok, but is the fact that they are working breeds less likely that they will be chilled?
With all my questions I know I must be giving away my inexperience ... I appreciate your help . Thanks!

My neighbour has a lab pup, it is so cute but it has eaten the kitchen cupboard doors and also some flooring and skirting I have never seen anything like the mess but when I tell people it doesn't seem that uncommon!

We have a springer, he's 10 now but they are a high energy dog that likes to be with you. He is not boisterous and chills in the house as long as he's had enough exercise and play. He's never been destructive and he hardly ever barks, but maybe we are just lucky. We had him from a pup and put in a lot of training but I wouldn't have a puppy again and will be looking to a springer rescue for our next dog.

My friend has a show cocker, she is a rescue and had been used in a puppy farm. She is gorgeous and very chilled and loving.

Working labs are not a good family pet in my experience as they are high energy and bred to stand up to a hard farm life. Like all working breeds, if they don't get the job they were bred for, they become 'self employed' - bored and stressed so can let it out in hyper behaviour and destructiveness. Not fair on you or the dog.

In general, show lines are more chilled than working lines and labs are more chilled than spaniels ('labradors are born half-trained and spaniels die half-trained' as the saying goes).

Working-line dogs can make great pets with the right sort of input but they're probably not ideal as first dogs (esp the spaniels who IME even with reasonably experienced owners can easily get into the habit of going self-employed around the local rabbit warrens for 20 mins at a stretch). Personally I wouldn't have anything else but they are bloody hard work.

In your situation a show-line lab at the smaller end of the size range might be a good option. Bitches tend to be smaller than dogs and if you keep her lean rather than very overweight like far too many labs, you won't have too many kgs at the end of the lead. Show-line spaniels can also be lovely dogs but I have the feeling that temperament is more variable, so I would want to check out their ancestry.

My working lab chewed everything until he was about 18 months old. Now, he's chilled and we've had no destruction for a while. If I'm working at home he just sleeps on the sofa for ages. He is smaller than show labs, and we got lucky with quite a submissive dog who is eager to please and desperate to cuddle up with us at every opportunity.

I work 3 days per week and we used to have dog walkers pre-covid for those days as I worked away from home. We'd walk him/play before work for 45 mins, then he'd get an hour's visit/walk/play mid morning and the same mid afternoon (these 2 were with paid dog walkers). Finally we'd walk him for 20 minutes or so after dinner. Our monthly dog walker bill was around £300.

Some people hate crates, but for us it was essential as he would sleep well in a crate. He was left for 2 to 3 hours max at a time. Now, he's never alone and is much happier.

It's so much easier if you are working from home, though a young puppy will have a similar impact on your ability to work as a toddler, because they need a lot of attention.

Both breeds you mention need good, long walks once they are old enough. A trot round the block won't be enough. Nowadays I do around 5 miles per day with my dog, as much as possible off lead so he can run, and that gets me a lot of uninterrupted working time while he snoozes. It does mean I have to get up and out early in the morning though. One day per week he goes to a wonderful dog sitter, so I get a full day of work and he gets to spend the day walking and playing somewhere else.

He's wonderful, and I hope you find similar happiness with a dog. It is flipping hard work at first though!

I have a show cocker and she took 6 years to calm down ;)

From what I've read, working cockers need more activity than shows, and springers more than that. Not just physical, but mentally too. But, as with people, dogs are different not only from breed to breed, but within breeds too.
I love my dog, but she has moments, is quite barky with regards to people deciding to walk past/open car doors outside our house. You know, outrageous things She also needs a lot of grooming which she hates. But, I can leave her for a few hours and she doesn't whine or bark (unless the above happens).

She is my constant shadow and I can't picture life without her (she's just turned 8 years old and I've had her since 8 weeks).

Thank you all.
bikerwife is your spaniel Show or working type?

It seems if we go for spaniel, definitely A show type and research on ancestry, we would want to ensure parents/grandparents are of good temperament.

Ok, so show Labrador, yes it would be key to keep him/her lean.

Yes, I am not worried about a 5 mile walk and lots of time off lead, I can do that just round the corner. I have stopped the gym now

I would go for a show lab, I’ve had a working lab and a show lab and the show lab is definitely lazier, although they share the same appetite, trainability and loving nature. Neither chewed anything in the house.

Grew up with a springer, she was a whirlwind of energy and quite highly strung. Talking to cocker owners they seem similar and are very driven to snort through the undergrowth, regardless of how loud their owners are calling them back, also seem very ball obsessed.

IMO Labs are much easier to train, more focussed on people pleasing. There’s a reason so many guide dogs are labs, if they were cockers then people would keep getting dragged into bushes!

IMO Labs are much easier to train, more focussed on people pleasing. There’s a reason so many guide dogs are labs, if they were cockers then people would keep getting dragged into bushes!

That make me laugh (from a working cocker owner )

My dog is a working type springer, he was a dream to train and very eager to please.

In general though I do think labs are easier to train and grow up at a younger age than spaniels who can be a bit eternal adolescent

Temperament wise I would always get a working breed.

Show dogs are obviously breed for appearance and then temperament second. I have meet some very narky and highly strung show dogs.

Working dogs have to be calm (not lazy though) especially if breed to work with the gun. However they will have a brain that needs to be worked and used.

Have you considered a different breed that would be happier with just 2 walks and less brain work?

@PollyRoulson, yes I would consider any breed to be honest - what breed would you recommend with just 2 walks a day and less brain work?

My son says all he wants is a dog that he can “play damm fetch with” that the cat does not give anything back ...

I have 2 labs, both working lines, look very different, both mid-size. Both pleasant to be around, female is more energetic and needs more work; male will rouse himself as required, but equally, pretty chilled.
I have met labs of all sorts, and really, if they are well enough bred, the rest is nurture.

That and a strange belief that show labs can’t swim, run, jump etc. I’d bet they can. Just ask them.

My show line lab can run, swim etc ( try getting her out of water once her feet are wet, and she heads for ducks like an Exocet missile!) just as much as my working one did. I would say that show labs do need a calm temperament as they need to be able to present themselves well in some fairly noisy, stressful situations ( have you seen how manic Crufts is backstage?) so you really won’t get far breeding a dog that is snappy or timid and can’t be handled because they just won’t cope in that atmosphere and if they don’t place or win then it defeats the point of competing. My dog was due to be a show dog but then they realised she had elbow dysplacia so they never showed her but the breeder said that even if she had been physically perfect she would probably have ended up as a pet anyway as she didn’t enjoy going through the motions of being examined etc and wouldn’t have shown to her best.

Saying that every dog is different so you can’t make sweeping generalisations and expect every dog to be a carbon copy, so much depends on the parents, a timid mother can pass anxiety onto her pups, so seeing at least the mother, and if you can the father and any other dogs they have to see how they act is important. Don’t panic if the father isn’t present as sometimes they are on loan for the breeding and then go back to their kennels.

I would say that show labs do need a calm temperament as they need to be able to present themselves well in some fairly noisy, stressful situations
TBH I think the same applies to working gundogs: they have to be able to cope with shot (which can very noisy, esp if the dog is waiting to pick up and is just behind the Guns) and they often get rattled around from drive to drive in the beaters' wagon or whatever, where nobody wants a dog who will pick a fight, bark at people, and cower and tremble if crowded in. Any dog who might consider picking a fight will be last on and first off, and will be well-known for its temperament issues.

And I do agree about Crufts - I went years ago and it was frenetic.

Thank you all, if a Labrador has a show type as mum and stud is a working gun dog ... I wonder how genetics work.

@Redandblue11 in the nicest possible way, you are overthinking the working/show lab thing. A lab from health tested parents with good temperaments should be fairly bullet proof. They will adapt to the lifestyle you bring them up in ( sorry that’s really bad English, but you know what I mean).
Labs are a common breed because they are very successful at living with their people. Take time to work with the puppy and you will get a fab dog.

How about a Rough collie? Happy with 2 walks a day as long as one is longish. Mine is happy to potter around when my husband is working from home. Very mouthy as puppies though. He loves to play fetch and tug too. We have three boys and he's great with them.

Have you considered a rescue greyhound? They don't take much exercise (although nobody told my mum's lad, he likes a good hike a few times a week plus his twice daily 20 min walks)

You can get them quite young and they haven't always been terribly abused. in my limited experience (my son's step mum fosters GHs) they aren't always from abusive backgrounds, sometimes they have just been really rubbish racers and the more decent owners turn them over to the rescues. Of course there are also sad cases.

My mums boy was a really successful racer so was lucky in that he was valuable so they treated him well and then handed him over to rescue once his racing days were over.

Not sure what part of the country you are but Google your local GH rescue - they're fabulous pets (you will usually need to put in a similar amount of work settling them in as you would with training a pup)

just a stealth excited boast that I forgot to include - our long awaited and much searched / researched new chocolate lab puppy was born last week and we get to bring her home early Dec.

Had it not been for the cats we'd have rehomed a GH but no cat-friendly dogs came up during our search.

My experience with show lines is that they are less energetic but

• they have more health issues, e.g. show springers have heavy ears and loose jowls and saggy eyes and so are prone to ear, eye, mouth infections
• are more likely to be nervous/reactive towards other dogs and children etc.
• are more likely to resource guard

I've seen a few show dogs that are trained to cope in the ring but cannot cope in every day situations. It' not temperment that's keeping them calm when shown, it's just targetted training.

If you can keep up with the energy of a working line then I wuld choose that any day. And I used to be 100% for the show lines, but I see more and more problems with them now.