Elderly dog club

[Random789]

Is there a long-running thread where people share tips, questions, etc. about living with an elderly dog?

Probably the biggest concern I have at the moment is this paradox: As my terrier (15.5 yo) becomes older and slower I find it harder, not easier, to give him enough exercise. When he was lithe and fast and vigorous we strode together across the countryside for hours and it worked well for both of us. These days, I think he would very happily be out for just as long as before but what he wants to do is stroll for a few yards then investigate a smell immensely throughly for minutes on end, then stroll another few yards ... .

Obviously I'm completely committed to spending time letting him do just that - it's part of his retirement package. But I get nothing out of it. Shuffling slowly about makes me feel really tense, whereas in the past our speedy hiking relaxed me and kept me fit. As a result I know I am short-changing him a bit. I think he should probably have three or more short-to-medium strolls a day to help keep his joints flexible and strong. But he gets one decent-ish walk and one tiny walk that is little more than a toileting opportunity.

I need to make myself do better, and I guess I'm looking for ways to make the walk more fun for both of us (especially me). And I need to find lots of little ways to keep him moving and stimulated at home, too.

Other items for consideration by Elderly Dog Club:

1. How do you minimise the steep cognitive decline associated with your dog becoming profoundly deaf? He seems to be falling into a slightly confused world of his own. And when should I stop letting him off the lead altogether for fear of him becoming confused and bolting off in the wrong direction? We've had a few 'senior moments' on walks when I've had to sprint after him cos he's darted off the wrong way.

1. Creeping incontinence. The poor soul does his best -- he's always been very fastidious. But he is having accidents now and so far I've not been able to teach him to use the puppy pads we put out for him at night.

@FantasticButtocks my dad had a JRT that lived until she was 19. Fantastic little dogs!

What is the cough like? If he does a disgusting old-man-like hacking/back-of-the-throat clagginess clear at the end of it, it’s probably nothing to worry about. My boy has always done that and after having him vet checked we realised it’s when he’s been lying upside down and gets saliva or snot in the back of his throat. He does it a lot more now he’s old, but I suspect that’s because he spends a lot more time roaching upside down on his bed!

I would be concerned about the shaky/wobbly part though and would get him checked over by the vet. I’m not saying it is this, but sometimes coughing can be a sign of heart problems and if it is that, there may be some medication that would help.

Thanks so much for replying @moosemama I appreciate it.

I'm not worried about the actual cough as yes it's the old man cough you describe and he's done it for years as he likes licking floors etc. But it seems that the strain of doing it causes these weird wobbles, like a little seizure or stroke where he's also zoned out for a bit. Really don't want the rest of his life taken over by vets and treatments etc as he is still enjoying himself although obviously want him to be as comfortable as possible. So, even if it's his heart is there any point us knowing? I mean do dogs ever just die at home in their sleep (our cat did, aged 19) or do they always have to be put to sleep?
Of course we would take him to the vet if he was in pain or struggling, but otherwise would prefer to spare him that.

@FantasticButtocks To be honest it depends on the individual dog and how they feel about the vets. My boy is quite happy going to the vets (sees it as an opportunity for them to give him lots of treats and have cuddles with the nurses). I’m ok with taking him for check-ups or obviously, if I am concerned about something specific that I feel may be causing him pain or distress, but wouldn’t want to put him through any invasive tests or anything that required him to be left there or need sedation for etc. A check-up where the vet listens to his heart through a stethoscope would be ok though and they might be able to pick up something easily treatable from that.

He has old dog vestibular syndrome and after the first episode the vet said no need to bring him in, just keep him calm and quiet at home, monitor him and call them to log it, so they have a record of how many/how often etc. Obviously if any of the episodes were significantly different or worse then I would take him in, but as they’re self-limiting and there’s not much the vet can do anyway, I wouldn’t drag him down there unnecessarily. It helps that the vets have a practice less than a 30 second walk from our house, so when I have needed my dogs seen in an emergency they have been able to see them within minutes. I have been with the same vet practice for 30 years though, so they know me and are generally happy to trust my judgement when it comes to my dogs.

Re dying at home. I have recently had a dog die at home, although he had been seriously ill for 18 months. We had backed out of having him pts, when the vet told us we weren’t allowed to stay with him and beign a highly anxious dog, there was no way we could have left him with strangers, no matter how kind, at the end. He actually perked up and had two more weeks with us enjoying a quiet, calm and comfortable life. His last night was calm and peaceful, but the end was sudden and traumatic - although I think more for us, as I don’t think he will have known anything about it. I still question whether we did the right thing. Conversely, my PIL’s dog did just go to sleep one night and not wake up. Fine one day, no sign of anything untoward, just didn’t wake in the morning, so it can happen. Obviously, if we could choose, I think we’d all want that for our dogs, but in over 30 years of having dogs, that’s the only one I’ve known it to actually happen for.

Thank you.

Thank you @moosemama and yes, he's also ok going for his check ups so maybe next time we'll ask about the wobbly leg thing. I feel the same about invasive procedures or overnights at the vet away from us etc he just doesn't need that in his life. I'd say he's happy and comfortable 98% of the time.
Sounds like you had some difficult decisions with yours but you went with your instincts and had some extra precious time

My poor boy is having a vestibular episode today. Started at 8.00 am and I am still sitting next his dog bed with him. Last time I sat here for almost four hours until his eye flicking settled and he was able to sleep. He’s sleeping at the moment, but his eyebrows are still twitching so it hasn’t settled yet.

The last two have happened within 24 hours of me having to take one of the dc’s out for a few hours (hospital appointments). Since our other dog died, he gets very stressed if I leave him and I’m wondering if the stress is a trigger. He wasn’t on his own, he had ds2 with him (they are very close and he has always been a bit like ds2’s dog really) but he didn’t settle the whole time I was out and followed ds2 around. It’s been ok while dh has been wfh, but his new contract means they insist he’s in the office 2-3 days a week and of course that always seems to coincide with days the dcs have appointments.

So sorry for the loss of your dear old dog, @Roystonv. What a fantastic age for a rottie to reach. xx

Thank you, she was a cross (looked mainly rottie) so that will have helped.

Worried about my boy today. He’s had two vestibular episodes this week (last Saturday and Thursday). Previously he hasn’t had them any closer than 6 weeks apart. He seemed to rally relatively quickly after both, as per previous episodes, although still a tiny bit wobbly, but since yesterday he’s been really quiet and a bit depressed. No obvious symptoms, eating, drinking, pooing and weeing ok, sniffing and pottering around the garden alright and dh says he did his usual sprint into the house after his morning poo this morning. He’s sleeping even more than usual though and wanting to be tucked in. Can’t put my finger on it, just feels like he’s not quite right.

Why does this always happen when the vets are on emergency appointments only. (Also, the surgery across the road was mysteriously closed this morning, although nothing about it on the answerphone or website, so I’m assuming staff issues, probably due to Covid/Self Isolating, as they are working in surgery specific bubbles.) There’s nothing to suggest an emergency appointment is necessary and I am sitting with him the whole time.

Dh thinks I’m over thinking it and I have to admit I am probably a bit hypervigilant since we lost our other boy, but the kids are with me and feel that he’s just not quite himself.

I really hope that your boy is doing a bit better now moosemama?

I've just come back onto the thread to say that I am giving my dog Activait now, and to say thank you to those of you who suggested that.

It is hard to say whether it has helped him, but it just definitely feels worth giving it in the hope of keeping him as well as possible for as long as possible.

When I started him on it he was going through a bad patch. He had been weeing and poosing every night, without crying to wake us up and let him out. There was no infection, so the vet suggested that confusion might be a reason for his behaviour, and she recommended Activait, which was what finally triggered me to buy it.

His nighttime incontinence improved, but much much too quickly for the Activait to be responsible.

I think a change of wet dog food might have caused the incontinence: I feed him James Welbeloved kibble mixed with a bit of wet food for tastiness and for a few days I had been using Wainwright as the wet food. I ditched that and he stopped messing in the house.

He does seem a little bit more lively and playful at the moment, which might be the Activait or the loxicom (which he is having daily now). DEafer and blinder every day though. Sad, but also quite sweet. And boy does he get under our feet at the moment - a combination of restlessness and sensory impairment means that he is constantly hovering clumsily and close. He does seem quite contented though.

Hi everyone, hope you all had a wonderful Christmas with your families and elderly canine companions!
Very belated and grateful thanks to those who replied to my question earlier in the thread regarding arthritis symptoms. My boy is now on daily Previcox and Amantidine to help, both are meant to work well in combination to reduce inflammation and ease pain. I think it’s helping a little though the Amantidine needs to apparently build up in his system.

A couple of questions from me, grateful in advance for any thoughts. Does anyone still fully insure their old guys and gals at age 11 or after? I appreciate the value of insurance and ours has paid out in the past with no issues, but the premiums and excess now are so high that I’m wondering whether to see about reducing the level of cover, or to “self cover” and save the premium (£200 a month now) for when it might be needed.
Secondly, can anyone recommend a decent dog ramp for the car? I’ve searched the internet high and low but the reviews all seem very mixed.
Thank you!

Hi @Chunkychipsohyeah. Good to hear your boy is now on treatment for his arthritis.

Re insurance, my boy is still fully insured, but his monthly premium is only £65. I won’t be putting him through any expensive or invasive treatments at his age, but with his premiums relatively low, it’s still worth it to us for claiming back his meds. I think if I was paying £200 a month I would be thinking about dropping down to third party cover (eg Dogs Trust) and putting the rest in a savings account, but then my boy is also a quite a bit older than yours.

I will be watching with interest if anyone recommends a ramp. I have had the same problem as you, in that the online reviews are wildly inconsistent and some of them are ridiculously expensive, especially if they turn out to be poor quality.

On another view I no longer insure my 15 year old dog. I do have money if he does need care but the excess was huge for him and he would not be strong enough to withstand some treatment.

My 10 year old collie is still insured and will be for the next couple of years ironically because he is still pretty healthy and hardy so I feel could withstand treatment if he needed it.

I also would like to know of a good ramp! I gave up and use a lift up harness but I have a van with a jump board so he does not have to be lifted very high. The ramps have either been really heavy and take up too much space or are flimsy.

Sorry about your loss @Roystonv

This is a great thread.
We found out our rehomed Beagle is actually 11. We took him to the vets and she gave him a clean bill of health, just his weight to be managed and a teeth clean.
I'm struggling to find a reasonable insurer (I know he's a higher risk, so not surprised!), the sheer number that won't even quote for over 8s. I did get the health plan today at the vets which saved us lots on his jabs and he'll need dental treatment within the next 12 months.
We seem to be veering towards saving a bit extra each month for vets bills if we can't find good insurance.

I meant to ask....the vet made no mention of arthritis symptoms, should we be giving him things like Yumove as a preventative? He's on a senior food too and has perked up in the last couple of days as we've slowly swapped him onto it. He even has a little run every now and again!

Hi everyone, happy new year! @moosemama thank you for sharing regards insurance. I’ve checked out Dogs Trust and also run through a few quotes for lowering our cover ( and cost). My current insurer offers cheaper options so the logical thing is to call them next week for a chat; I’ll report back. Also how is your boy doing with his ongoing condition? Hope no recent episodes?

@PollyRoulson thank you also for your thoughts. I’m not sure I’m brave enough to entirely self insure but it’s food for thought. Also interesting that you both found the same about ramps - would love anyone else to contribute on that matter!

@Thatsanotherfinemess I did a search for ‘elderly dog insurance’ and found a few that will insure over 8s but obviously not cheap. One that came up was ‘Bought By Many’ which I’ve never heard of...
Regarding your Beagle (I love Beagles!), my dog is on Hills Joint Care food which already contains a lot of the vitamins, minerals etc that are found in other supplements. I asked the vet whether I needed to add any supplements in and was told no. So might be worth worth directly asking the vet whether your brand of food already contains what Yumove does??

@Chunkychipsohyeah he is still having vestibular episodes every now and again, but they’re no worse, still not severe and still self-limiting. So we’re still keeping a diary of what happens when, which we review with the vet when he has his check-ups.

@Thatsanotherfinemess It’s worth having a read of the Canine Arthritis Management website. Particularly the section on diet and nutrition and their guide to supplements. It’s a good starting point for doing your own research about whether or not you feel supplements might be beneficial for your dog.

We had my boy on Yumove for years and lots of vets , including ours, recommend it, but imo the ingredient levels are relatively low so, with my boy definitely having arthritis, we did the research and decided to give him Riaflex, Green Lipped Mussel, Turmeric for Dogs and Omega 3, as well as his meds. Ultimately it’s a personal decision, based on the needs of your dog and your budget. Personally, I do feel these supplements have helped my boy, as he’s so much happier and fitter now than he was this time last year, but it has been a case of trial and error over several months and we have done a lot of other things CAM recommend as well, so it’s probably the holistic approach that has benefitted him over all.

From what I’ve read and heard on the CAM site and videos, if you want to give something relatively cheap and simple, Omega 3 from cold water fish is the best and the one with the most scientific evidence that it helps. Plus it’s great for their skin and coat and a few other things, so even if they don’t have arthritis it can benefit them in other ways.

Re Insurance, it’s difficult when they get over the age of 8, but with no pre-existing conditions on record, if you can afford it and premiums aren’t prohibitively expensive (like ChunkyChip’s £200 per month) personally I would insure an 11 year old dog that has no obvious health issues as they will hopefully still have years ahead of them when they could potentially need expensive care. If you think about the possibility of, for example, an injury requiring scans and veterinary care, that could run into thousands. I am risk averse when it comes to vet fees though, as the boy we lost his year had claims totalling over £20,000 in 18 months and I was so relieved he was insured at a decent level. The first week he became ill (which was sudden and out of the blue in an otherwise strong healthy dog of almost 6 years old) the vet bill totalled over £7,000 and each follow up appointment was £450 plus meds, as he needed very specialist care.

Bought by Many seems quite popular on MN, but, from what I’ve heard on here, I think the premiums go up quite a lot if you claim. Not sure if PetPlan quote over the age of 8 and they do load the policy with a higher excess per illness/injury and a percentage of each treatment you have to pay as well, but in my experience their premiums don’t increase as dramatically year on year and they don’t go up due to the cost of treatment/care, although do with age. My boy is a 15 year old large Lurcher and we pay £65.00 a month for him with PetPlan. I stick with them for all my dogs because we have had consistently reliable service from them and they’ve paid every claim swiftly with no problem. Also, a lot of vets will deal with them direct, which saves paying up front and claiming back and takes a lot of the stress away when you’re already dealing with a poorly dog.

Just resurrecting the elderly dog club to say that my dear old terrier is being put to sleep on Tuesday. He has been declining over the last few months, with pain managed by loxicom and gabapentin and diazipam. But pain isn't really the problem for him. He has a neurological disorder awhich is causing mental and physical decline. He is very wobbly and sometimes falls over. But more distressingly he is very 'lost', spaced out, etc. A lot of the time this is ok for him - he is zoned out and calm, sniffing at smells and forgetting to stop sniffing. But there are times when he is anxious and actively confused, following me around the house even though he finds the stairs hard and not settling at night.
Yesterday the vet told me that PTS was the right thing to do, but she also urged me to take a few days with him first -- there are no welfare issues that require it to be sooner.
So we have him for now. I hope the sun shines today, as sunbathing is a favourite hobby for him. He had cod fillet yesterday, and today I am going to the supermarket and will get him steaks and other nice things.
He would have been 16 in June. He has been a wonderful companion -- sadly unfriendly to strangers and most dogs but the dearest, cleverest creature at home and so full of zest, in his younger days, for long and lively walks through the Durham countryside.

I am so sorry @Random . My oldie on this thread was pts 3 weeks ago 4 days off his birthday.

It was the right thing to do and we miss him like mad but I was surprised at the peace I felt afterwards. He was always a happy dog and always made everyone happy around him. A true gentlemen.

Your guy sounds like he had a fantastic life and lived life to the full. I am sorry you are having to go through this and hope the happy memories can shine through.

Our dog went to sleep eating chocolate icecream with a smile on his face it is the best we can do for them

So sorry to hear that, PollyRoulson. I've just been rereading your post about your old dog upthread. You did so much to make the end of his life as happy and comfortable as possible. I'm really glad you felt peace afterwards, having given him such a gentle end.

The ice cream sounds like a lovely idea. It's been a helpful nudge for me to be imaginative about those last moment arrangements. My dog has had steak tonight and will again tomorrow. Perhaps ice cream too, at the end

Kind thoughts to you OP, so sorry you're going through this. It sounds like your little terrier has been very well loved all through his life

Thinking of you today @Random789

You are in my thoughts today @Random789.

@PollyRoulson, so sorry to hear you have lost your boy.

(It’s Moose by the way - changed my username for a while.)

Thanks, permanentlydizzy.

Arthur was put to sleep yesterday as planned, despite lots of agonising from me throughout the day. It was peaceful, at the end. I gave him a sedative at home just to make sure that he wasn't fighty and frightened at the surgery, and really he was fast asleep while it happened.

The vet set up a long line, so that they could leave the room and I could be in the room with Arthur in a way that was compliant with social distancing. He looked beautiful, lying on the table. I had brushed him more thoroughly over the last few weeks, because he resisted it less than usual and seemed to enjoy the massage. So his fur was beautiful and soft. It was so hard to walk away from him. I kept going back and talking to him some more, and I had the unshakeable feeling that I shouldn't leave him unsupervised on the table in case he jumped off and hurt himself.

The one bad thing that happened was also a reassuring thing, in a way. Half an hour after I gave him the sedative when he was already quite sleepy he had a fit. It really didn't seem to be distressing for him because he was already so sleepy. His body twitched and his lips quivered and pulled back.
I felt horrified to have caused this by giving him the pill and rushed him to the surgery a bit earlier than my appointment, but he quickly returned to a peaceful sleep.
The vet said that the fit was an indication of the extent of his brain disorder, so that it tended to confirm that he was already severely ill and definitely ready for being put to sleep.
I wonder if any vets or nurses reading this had any views on this? It would be very reassuring to have any additional confidence that he really did need to die now. On the other hand, I shouldn't brood on it. What do a few weeks matter at the end of a happy life. I did notice throughout yesterday that although he seemed contented, his confusion and deficits did seem to be a little worse than ever. And my strong emotional response, having taken the decision, was that it was the right thing to do.
Sorry for the massive ramble. Thank you for your kindness if you have read all of this long post.

You did the right thing Random without question. I think it is very normal to question the decision. Well at least I nearly always do.

Arthur is at peace and in no distress.

You have prevented him from having a traumatic event and allowed him little suffering. He was a very lucky dog to be so loved.

Do take care of yourself .