Is there anything I can do to prevent this behaviour developing or is it just a ‘normal’ part of being a dog?

[Socre383]

Our pup is an 11 month old spaniel terrier cross. He’s always been very friendly with other dogs-happy to play if they want to or he’ll have a quick sniff and move on. He’s seemed good at reading their body language. He’s been growled and snapped at so many times I’ve lost count, never any warning from the owners-it’s always been when both dogs are on lead and after a very quick, 3 second tops sniff. He’s never reacted back.

Today, he was off lead and approached another much larger dog (also off lead) the larger dog was very stiff. My dog then mirrored his stiffness whilst they sniffed and I saw, for the first time, the start of a reaction from him -a growl and an air snap. I called him away. (I say it was a reaction but actually he did it first).

Is there anything I should do? Is it just a case of watching his body language? We haven’t had him castrated yet and weren’t planning to for a while. Is this something that might become more frequent? It seems so common for dogs to do this that I’ve been anticipating the behaviour in him but I’d like to do whatever I can to prevent it in the future. Many thanks:

Um, @Borderstotheleftofme your dog’s reactive behaviour isn’t anyone else’s problem either and you sound just as entitled as those you’re complaining about. I think you missed the bit where the Op said it was a designated off lead area.

@Socre383

Well in that case the owner of that dog should have had him on a lead, not off lead in a designated off lead area. IMO if you’re in a field with signs saying ‘off lead area’ your dog should be comfortable enough for another dog to calmly approach it for a sniff.

Why should the owner have his dog on a lead when his dog didn't react? Your dog is the one that air snapped and growled, not his.

A dog that ignores other dogs is not a danger. One that snaps and growls is a danger, and should be on a lead. I appreciate you didn't think your dog would react like that until today, but now you know, you need to be responsible and put him on a lead until you can desensitise him.

I know it's not nice to think of our dogs being aggressive or unpleasant. Mine was very reactive for a while after he was on lead and bitten by two off-lead dogs. He's fine now but that's after two years of very hard work and he still hates being approached by off-lead dogs when he's on his lead.

your dog’s reactive behaviour isn’t anyone else’s problem either
Well actually, seeing as it was caused by people allowing their dogs to chase her, growl at her, bite her...

you sound just as entitled as those you’re complaining about
I’m really not, even before she became reactive I never used to let her say hello to leashed dogs and I only used to let her interact with off lead dogs if the other dogs body language looked alright to me and they wanted to interact.

If someone said to me no he/she doesn’t like other dogs I would recall her immediately.

I wouldn’t dream of getting the arse and saying (or thinking) ‘well if you shouldn’t be in an off leash park if your dog doesn’t want to interact with my dog’ or ‘you should socialise your dog better then’ or ‘he needs a good telling off’ or any of the other excuses I’ve heard over the years.

My dog is under control.
She recalls, she doesn’t approach anyone.
It’s really not my fault that other people’s dogs won’t recall and can’t recognise when another dog actually doesn’t want to interact with them.

think you missed the bit where the Op said it was a designated off lead area
So?
Off lead doesn’t mean other dogs should be able to interact with others that clearly don’t want it.
The dogs still have to be ‘under control’ and behaving themselves just not leashed.

I agree that no dog should approach another dog unless there is mutual agreement by both owners. This should also apply to off lead areas.

OP in you instance if you do want your dog to interact with other dogs (although your dog is telling you quite clearly that he does not want interaction) walk in the same area every day at the same time and you will meet many of the same dog walkers , if they , you and your dog build up a friendship then this is the only dogs I would let your dog mix with.

Please though do not let your dog approach any dog without permission from their owner

Seriously dog owners need to chill a bit. It sounds like a lot of the time it's the human that is worried and anxious rather than the dog and this is what causes the escalation in nervousness and aggression. Also sadly many dogs are neutered which contributes to many behaviour issues.

Dogs growl and go stiff and air snap and bark and sometimes have a shout. Those are normal dog comms. They are not stuffed toys or cartoon characters and it's OK for our dogs to express themselves. The owners role is to keep the situation under control and not to stamp out every signal of a functioning creature.

Really a stable domestic dog should not develop trauma from the approach of friendly dogs. This is normal dog behaviour.

Dogs that are aggressive and cause injury or bully, what ever the reason-they were poorly raised/they were attacked/they don't like other dogs etc etc - should of course be kept away from social spaces or on lead or muzzled.

But equally, owners of dogs that are fearful do not get to dictate that stable happy friendly dogs should lose their freedom. Its ridiculous.

It's like saying that kids should not run around to play football in a playground because one child is scared of footballs because a nasty child bullied them with a football. We don't stop all the children playing and restrict their normal friendly behaviour just because one child has been traumatised or doesn't like it whatever the cause of that issue. Instead, We take that damaged child away from the environment they cannot cope with and seek to reintroduce them by building their confidence. If we fail we still don't ban the fun and freedom of the rest of the children but we find other opportunities for that child to play and interact which work for them.

Are we reading the same thread splinky?!

I don’t think anyone was calling for a loss of freedom, just a request that dogs don’t approach other dogs unless they know them or the owner had said it’s okay.

That doesn’t mean they can’t be off lead or run around and play, just that they shouldn’t approach other dogs and should have ‘recall’.

Very few, if any, ‘reactive’ dogs will have developed trauma from polite, friendly greeting.
They will have developed trauma from over the top ‘friendly’ behaviour like being ran at and flattened, chased, nipped etc.
A ‘friendly’ dog once in his exuberance smashed my dog into a bench.
Another jumped on her and literally flattened her on the floor.
And/or their trauma will have come from being repeatedly threatened or actually bitten.
Something my dog has also experienced in buckets!

Most owners seriously fail at ‘socialisation’, as evidenced by the huge number of dogs who seem utterly incapable of reading even basic body language.
Presumably because people just let them loose and don’t intervene when they are being rude and punish any dog that tries to discipline them.

I can’t tell you how many dogs have bombed up to my dog (when she was at her worst), seen her super tense, rigid stance, her fluffed upright tail and still approached her!
They don’t even stop when she lip curls, or growls or air snaps..
I can count on one hand the number of dogs who have gone to approach (now that she’s better) seen her turn her back and go the opposite way and realised she doesn’t want interaction!
And these dogs are apparently well socialised?!
They have no clue how to interact with others.

And their owners are no better!
It’s always up to me to try and keep and them separate, all the useless owners come out with are ‘he just wants to play’ ‘he just loves other dogs’ ‘your dog should be better socialised then’ ‘your dog should be leashed’ etc etc etc

Agree with every word Borders. Op at 11 months tour dog will also be having a huge testosterone boost which may make other males react to him. You just need to be very careful about his interactions with others. My dog went through this and got growled at / snapped at on nearly every walk at this stage and this was by dogs that approached him not the other way round as he has always been more interested in interacting with me on walks than other dogs.

We came through it when the hormones settled but it has left him cautious and nervous of other dogs which is why I have been advised to leave him entire. I have also worked with a behaviourist to build his confidence.

You have my sympathies but you sound like you are trying your best so good luck.

The thing is borders not all dogs are robust in temperament so while all these frustrating encounters have caused your dog lasting damage, the fact is that the majority of pet dogs will be fine and able to cope and not develop temperament problems as a result of all this over rambunctiousness.
Having had a reactive sensitive dog and many friendly bounce back dogs, I fully recognise that the real problem is not everyone else but is 1. A dog with poor temperament 2. A reactive owner.
I fully appreciate this seems harsh due the current fashion of treating dogs like stuffed toys, but actually it is no different to what you are saying about many other dog owners.

majority of pet dogs will be fine and able to cope and not develop temperament problems as a result of all this over rambunctiousness

I would totally disagree with this comment. The "he is friendly and only want to play dogs" are the dogs that keep behaviourists in work.

the fact is that the majority of pet dogs will be fine and able to cope and not develop temperament problems as a result of all this over rambunctiousness

Nope, totally disagree with you here.

Owners who shout "don't worry, he's friendly!" are the problem. Train your dogs - don't expect them to just be able to run up to every other dog they meet. I walk a very, very nervous rescue dog who is fine around dogs she knows, but can be scared with new dogs to the point she will pee herself on the spot. Yet still, other owners thing it's acceptable to let their "over rambunctious" dogs run up to her while she's on her lead and pester her. She's not remotely aggressive but every time it happens, she's set back again.

Badly behaved dogs are the bane of my life as a dog walker. Control your bloody dogs!

I agree with borders , infact I think we share a dog , my dog doesn’t approach other dogs and 95% of the time he is ok if other dogs approach him for a sniff - he never plays . He goes off lead , he ambles about with his tennis ball and bothers no one as long as they leave him alone so as far as I’m concerned I shouldn’t have to keep him on a lead . I know he is reactive with bulldogs / husky types and staffies so I either call out to let the owners know to keep them away or if they can’t do that ( which is often) I put mine on a lead until they regain control . My point being that if I call to you and say keep your dog away , you need to have enough control to do so because my dog is not the one coming up to you and your dog . My dog is reactive with staffies and bulldogs because he’s been attacked by both , he just doesn’t seem to like husky’s .

@vanillandhoney you are making my point exactly. Why on earth would you walk a really really nervous rescue dog in a public, social space and think that is a good thing for her. Completely bizarre.

For some reason the general dog community is fixated on fitting all dogs into this model of a dog that enjoys regular public walks even though their temperaments are just not up to it and we cause them stress as a result.

The owners of dogs that don't fit the model then relish in blaming the whole situation on Joe blogs pootling around with their Joe blogs pet dog that does not have the same issues. Over friendly is just not the same as aggressive or reactive etc. It is normal for some dogs to be super friendly and this is not a reason for some dogs sinking into quivering wrecks.

I confess I don't meet many dog owners now who do the whole 'oh it's friendly' conversation as I happily live in a more-doggy and less-parading area, but I have seen the nervous types, dragged along on a lead in public spaces, followed by a nervous owner diving into a Bush or nervously hopping around a path to avoid passing dogs and then complaining constantly about all the other dog walkers.

It's a narrative that pervades the dog community at the moment and yes, it absolutely does keep the behaviourists in business.

Ultimately these dogs just have poor temperaments,and their owners should not be put under the burden of thinking they should persist in forcing their dog into these stressful situations

Why on earth would you walk a really really nervous rescue dog in a public, social space and think that is a good thing for her. Completely bizarre.

Um, because she has as much right to be there as any other dog?

She walks nicely next to me on her lead. She doesn't bark, she doesn't pull, she's safe on her lead and enjoys a nice slow walk with lots of sniffs and praise. I also spend a lot of time training her to be okay with other dogs - lots of positive reinforcement, praise and treats. She's doing absolutely nothing wrong, yet according to you she shouldn't even be there - why? Because she's nervous around other dogs? How am I supposed to get her used to other dogs if she's never allowed to be around them? Oh, and she lives with two other dogs and knows my dogs and has no issues at all. But she doesn't appreciate random dogs charging up to her and near-enough knocking her over.

There is absolutely no reason why should she have to put up with loads of untrained dogs running up to her and bothering her, just because their owners are too lazy to train a decent recall in their dogs. Dogs that are "super friendly" shouldn't be going up to on-lead dogs, full-stop. If a dog is on a lead, the right thing to do is leash your dog. Not let them run up and play because they're "super friendly".

It's so arrogant. Your dog has no more rights to be there than any other.

Weird how you don’t meet “super friendly” people who come up to complete strangers and expect to shake hands or even have a hug.
Yet people expect dogs to put up with the doggy equivalent.
There are all kinds of reasons why a dog wouldn’t want to interact with yours. Many of them don’t mean a dog should have to be on a lead.

Honestly @vanillandhoney , the cheek of you wanting to use a public field to walk your dog on a lead 😀

@Floralnomad

Honestly *@vanillandhoney* , the cheek of you wanting to use a public field to walk your dog on a lead 😀

I know - disgusting isn't it?!

@Floralnomad vanilla has the right to walk where ever she pleases. That is not the same thing as the needs or abilities of a nervous dog.
Again this is the point I am trying to make in that we conflate our vision of being a dog owner with the reality of what individual dogs are capable of and even what they like.
Anyway I've made my point and we are now hijacking the thread as the Op is doing a great job with her young dog. So I will let the blamers have the last word if they so wish .

The thing is borders not all dogs are robust in temperament so while all these frustrating encounters have caused your dog lasting damage, the fact is that the majority of pet dogs will be fine and able to cope and not develop temperament problems as a result of all this over rambunctiousness

Please don’t try and suggest my dog is of poor temperament.
My dog is stable, she isn’t noise sensitive, she’ll even sleep through fireworks.
She isn’t scared of people, vehicles, she has outstanding bite inhibition, great with children, I could go on and on.

To date my poor dog has:

• Been run into and smashed by a bench by a dog considerably bigger than her
• Been jumped on and flattened, as in literally knocked onto the floor unable to get up
• chased by a pack of dogs and repeatedly nipped and rolled over onto her back
• has dogs incessantly jump at her, block her way and slam into her

These were all ‘friendly’ dogs

She’s also had:

• a dog approach her (very stiffly/aggressively) and as she walked away from him (didn’t react back) he lunged forward and bit her neck, fortunately she is a thick ruffed breed
• a group of dogs run at her snarling and lunging as she trotted past
• a dog come running over from the field opposite snarling that forced the two of us into a fence until it’s owner arrived
• a huge dog lunge at her and pin her
• countless dogs that have have had a ‘grumble’ as in a bit of a growl and posture for no reason I can see

There’s probably more I can’t even remember.

And yet, even at her absolute worst, she never bit another dog.
Growled, snarled, air snapped yes.
Never damaged another dog.
Never actually went after another dog to cause trouble.

And you have the absolute nerve to try and suggest to me she’s poorly bred.
I’d like to see a dog go through what she’s been through and come out super sociable!

I fully appreciate this seems harsh due the current fashion of treating dogs like stuffed toys
OMG I didn’t even see this!
How bloody dare you!
She’s a working sheepdog, not a chihuahua in a dress and tiara and I have never and would never treat her, or any dog as a ‘stuffed toy’ thanks.

@Splinkyplonk but the point @vanillandhoney is making is that her nervous dog is perfectly ok to walk anywhere as long as other people stop their dogs running up and scaring her . She is a dog walker so I assume she is walking this dog with either her own dog or the others that it lives with which want to be running about offlead .

[quote Floralnomad]**@Splinkyplonk* but the point @vanillandhoney* is making is that her nervous dog is perfectly ok to walk anywhere as long as other people stop their dogs running up and scaring her . She is a dog walker so I assume she is walking this dog with either her own dog or the others that it lives with which want to be running about offlead .[/quote]
Correct. I also walk her alone occasionally and she's absolutely fine on her lead, minding her own business. Why should she be stuck walking around quiet industrial estates or similar just because people can't be bothered to control their dogs?

@Socre383

Do you let your dog who’s ‘hit and miss’ off the lead around other dogs?

I haven’t got any known and trusted dogs unfortunately.

no, if i see other dogs I call her back. She can say hello on the lead and have a sniff etc but ive got control. Shes only hit and miss because 2 other off lead dogs have attacked her before. Thats what I mean, if you allow your dog to run up to other dogs, she could get attacked and then that could end up having long term behaviour consequences for your pooch

@Socre383, I would say it was due to his adolescent hormones. Our dog has been bullied by quite a few dogs and believe it was due to him being entire. It got to the stage where I began to dread interactions with other dogs. My dog never reacted to the growling and snapping, but I was always ready to block contact and remove him from the situation. Our dog has just been castrated, so hopefully it will reduce the number of these encounters. I’d just try to limit his interactions to dogs he knows well. On a positive note, at least he responded to being recalled!