Decent and honest breeder

[Maybenexttime08]

Hi,

We are at the start of our dog adventure and after a long wait we are ready to start looking for a puppy which we can bring home around November time.

I am obviously very keen to ensure we use a good breeder but how do I find one apart from via kennel club? I've heard too many stories of puppy farming and clever ways they hide their business!

Thanks for any advice!

What breed are you looking for?

If you are looking for a, er, 'humane' breeding, you may as well just adopt. Too much work to snoop around for an honest breeder.

We are thinking labradoodle?

@FishTaco101 - that is my worry!

Well KC is there for a reason, particularly with assured breeders.

Other than that, word of mouth.

This would depend on the breed.

Ring craft local groups for example will know of reputable breeders and waiting lists. As will agility groups, fly ball etc. Local game keepers and farmers would know of spaniel, terrier and collie breeders.

I am an assured breeder and have a litter at foot now. The list is long. Maybe 40 plus people, for some circumstances will have changed, so they can be discounted.

I've turned away more than I've put on the list. The price and vetting process has been the same for years. I am aware from here and elsewhere that this is not the case across the board and prices are ridiculous which I am horrified at.

We are at the start of our dog adventure and after a long wait we are ready to start looking for a puppy which we can bring home around November time

To start with most decent breeders have long waiting lists as they aren’t churning out puppies and will have one litter every couple of years. A two year wait in normal. So November is very ambitious. Red flags include breeders where someone has “dropped out” and hey presto there is one puppy available, despite the high demand.

Secondly your choice of breed. Doodles and any fashionable portmanteau “breed” are rife with dodgy breeders as there are no kc reg, no health certs, and people pay serious money for them.

Are you aware labradoodles aren’t the easy, non shedding, low maintenance, hypoallergenic dog people think they are? If it’s the allergies and no shedding you want a giant poodle is a better choice, and nearly indistinguishable in looks.

In the next six months or so predictions are rescues will be overrun as people go back to work and lockdown puppies flood in. Also try doodle specific rescues- unfortunately many get handed in as new owners realise they do shed, their coats are very high maintenance, and little johnny is allergic to it...

Maybenexttime - I'm sure there are decent and honest labradoodle breeders out there, but it is much harder to find one as there isn't the same network around this cross as there is around the KC registered breeds.

Established breeds have breed clubs, where mostly people know each other and have an idea about who is breeding what. There is an amount of peer pressure (as well as club rules) around health testing, careful selection of mates etc. This system is not perfect by any means, and there will be breeders not doing absolutely the right thing, but it is a good starting point.

Breed clubs usually have lists of breeders, but the best thing you can do is get out and about and meet owners and breeders - and that is difficult at the moment. The first big dog show of the year is scheduled for end of September (Blackpool Championship Show). Also the number of puppy enquiries at the moment is just ridiculous. We breed maybe once every 2 years, in a tiny breed that no one knows about, and I am getting daily emails.

I would suggest:

1. Research lots of different breeds. Be very clear about what kind of a life you want with your dog, and what you are willing to do. The KC has a good 'Find a Breed' tool. Be honest with yourselves - there's no point getting a working breed because you like the way they look if you're not willing to fulfil their need to work.

1. Get to a dog show (unfortunately Discover Dogs is cancelled this year). Wander around. Watch and listen. Look at how different breeds behave both in and around the ring. Ask owners on the benches if you can ask them questions about their breed - they will usually be more than happy to chat (especially if their breed is not in the ring at the time!)

1. Decide on a breed. Do more research. And more research. And more - go to another show or club event. Keep being honest with yourselves about whether you can meet the needs of the dog.

1. Contact the club (hopefully they will have a puppy advisor). Contact breeders, explaining why you have chosen the breed (briefly) and what you can offer/what you have considered (e.g. grooming and exercise requirements, working temperament etc). Go and visit if this is offered.

1. Keep researching and meeting people. Be patient. Wait for the right litter from a breeder you have developed a relationship with.

You will have to wait to get a well bred puppy. The more meeting of owners and breeders you do, the more your name will be bandied around as a potential owner, and the better chance you will have of finding a decent breeder. It takes work! I have had people drive over 6 hours for a visit, in the hopes of maybe being put onto a list for puppies not yet born.

Compare this to trying to find a breeder of a cross on the internet, where all you have to go on is what they say about themselves, and their ability to produce a puppy at a time that is convenient for you.

Lastly - more expensive does NOT mean better. Our club has an informal agreement to keep the price of puppies 'low' (in relative terms) so that the breed does not become attractive to puppy farmers.

There's lots to think about!

I'd also suggest joining breed groups on FB and asking a few questions.

IME some perfectly decent breeders (not stellar, but decent) breeders don't keep waiting lists.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

I'd also suggest joining breed groups on FB and asking a few questions.

IME some perfectly decent breeders (not stellar, but decent) breeders don't keep waiting lists.

I’ve seen waiting lists full for well into next year for some fairly surprising breeds just now tbh.

It’s a weird time to be trying to get a dog, they’re currently either rare as hens teeth or thousands of pounds.

We looked on Champdogs. I found a prize winning breeder in Somerset who didn't have any puppies, but if she did, they were too pricey for us. Then I found a local lady who was breeding her dog for the second and last time. This was Feb time I think. We were put on reserve before the pups were born, and went to see them in early June. Reserved one, and when we looked into them a bit more, found out the dad was owned by the first breeder we looked at, it for a few hundred pounds less.
The lady we found was very local to us, like I said second and last litter. Family home, met the whole family, dog and human, including the 'aunt' of the puppies.
I think go with word of mouth, go with your gut. Don't be too desperate to buy the first pup you see.
Have a realistic budget. Our original was wholly unrealistic, and the pups I'd find were on pets for homes and other websites, looking very much like puppy farm situations (several breeds, same breeder, pictures of them living in barns, or the worst one was in a dingy looking garage!) Upped it with the help of some savings my mum had been saving for me (she still doesn't know!)

@icedaisy

Well KC is there for a reason, particularly with assured breeders.

Other than that, word of mouth.

This would depend on the breed.

Ring craft local groups for example will know of reputable breeders and waiting lists. As will agility groups, fly ball etc. Local game keepers and farmers would know of spaniel, terrier and collie breeders.

I am an assured breeder and have a litter at foot now. The list is long. Maybe 40 plus people, for some circumstances will have changed, so they can be discounted.

I've turned away more than I've put on the list. The price and vetting process has been the same for years. I am aware from here and elsewhere that this is not the case across the board and prices are ridiculous which I am horrified at.

Hi , can I ask what the vetting process is for prospective buyers .

Thanks

@seadog1977 yes of course, it will be breeder specific naturally but I can give you mine.

I met my now best friend many years ago via the breed club. She breeds to an exceptional standard and over the years we have gone on to have shared dogs and litters. Plus our own.

People tend to hear via word of mouth, I have never had to advertise. When I receive an initial enquire we have a basic questionnaire which is sent out. That's sort of background information.

Why you are looking for this breed, what attracts you to the breed, etc.
Then abit about you, your family life, working conditions, jobs, children, garden, etc.
Your history, previous dogs, any specific interests, eg showing, agility.
How you heard about me. This is often handy as a friend of a friend of a friend can reveal a lot.

Then you would go on the list unless that flags any concerns, I will come back to that.

Once we have a litter, which might be a year or so from when you had enquire I would let you know and ask if anything has changed, I would also then ask for two references which I would take up. That's assuming you still wish to have a puppy.

I don't let people chose puppies, I do that and I meet the people at least twice, at mine and if locally at theirs as well. That's not always possible.

I adore my dogs and the breed itself. If I'm selling a puppy it's a lifelong commitment for me to take it back and to support the buyer. I need to match the right puppy to the right person and do my best to ensure it doesn't break down.

We have a couple of Facebook and whatsapp groups for new owners and I have genuinely become friends with all I have sold to. We meet occasionally if in same area and the groups are good for people to interAct and share worries or questions. Puppies can be hard.

I have a breeding restriction on the papers but to be honest that's more to assist with matching if you chose to take a litter. If I had concerns you wanted the dog solely to breed I wouldn't be selling it anyway.

I've turned away more than I've sold by far. I've had to take back two in fifteen years, both due to horrific personal circumstances, death and break down. Both are still with me.

This was a recent enquire which didn't even get a questionnaire, never mind on waiting list.

Word for word.

Hey, here you got puppies. Furloughed and bored. Want to breed and make some holiday money. Will you take back if I'm put back to work full time in office? What kind are they? Willing to pay triple for right dog, great home awaits.

So it's not just breeders who can give dogs a bad name.

Rocking baby and typing one handed so may have missed bits but think I've covered most of it.

@icedaisy . Thank you for replying. I have emailed a breeder from Kennel Club as we are looking for a puppy. However I'm willing to wait til next year or the year after but also I want to go with a reputable breeder .

Iv been put on a waiting list , so I was just wondering what ,if any ,the vetting process would be .

I'm really shocked that you received an email like that , totally shocked that someone would actually think to send something like that . Did you reply or just totally ignore ?

I thought long and hard but am not witty enough to to politely reply so ignored it.

This is a very weird time to be buying a dog.

Like PP said, there are either none available for months and months, or you can get a puppy tomorrow, but it will cost you more than 3k. It's bonkers.

As labradoodles aren't a "breed" you may struggle finding a reputable breeder. Of course, that's not to say they don't exist, but as the pups can't be KC registered, lots of people will just breed any old Labrador and poodle together with no regard for health checks, lines, genetics etc.

As a minimum, I would look for a breeder with waiting lists, who does all the necessary health tests for both breeds, who knows the lineage for both sire and dam, who will make you sign a contract saying they'll take back the puppy should you need to rehome for any reasons and who will allow you to come and meet the pups, and maybe even the pregnant dam. You should be able to see pups and mum together multiple times before you take the puppy home, too.

Best of luck!

Have a look into Australian labradoodles OP.

Different to a basic poodle/lab cross. Decent breeders are registered with WALA or ALAA with adherance to breed standards, and full health testing.

You are looking at min 12-18 months wait though.

Sorry, that should be ALAUK if you're in the UK. ALAA is the US.

@HookShot

Also, by going for a small and obscure breed, the waiting lists are likely to be shorter (or even non-existent) because there is less demand, even amongst the really good breeders

Hmm, the waiting list may be shorter, but if you go too obscure, you’re having to wait much longer just for a litter to happen, lol

I’m in contact with two breeders, but, neither have a litter till next year...

But yes, it was easier to find good breeders than trying to weed them out from hundreds of dodgy ones.

So I'd say go for a KC assured breeder or go for an obscure breed, and get a working purebred.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend a regular pet-owner go for a working dog. They can have quite "intense" exercise needs and aren't always suited to your average home.

I love working-line dogs and have three but I would agree, many of them are not suited to standard pet homes, and many pet homes are not prepared for the commitment needed. I've literally just seen a post on a gundog FB page about a Vizsla in a pet home that a trainer has just taken on, zero recall, runs off, no focus.

HookShot, with you. I always advise people thinking about the breed I have to avoid certain features if they just want a pet. Lots of field trialling red would suit some people, but be a disaster for a first-time dog owner who wants a chilled dog to walk twice a day.