Advice about Dalmation crosses and finding a puppy

[Equimum]

Okay, so I’ll start by saying that I am fully aware that getting a puppy is nigh on impossible at the moment, and that prices are absolutely crazy.

The upturn in the market will probably change out plans a bit, as we had always planned to get a puppy this Autumn, once our youngest had started school and I would have lots of time for it. We know this is now unlikely to happen, but we are still starting to plan ahead in the hope it might happen at some point in the future, and that we can perhaps try to get on breeders lists etc.

So, to my question. DS is obsessed with dalmations (he’s never seen the film, just fallen in love with the one we see being walked). We have looked into purebreds, but understand cross-breeds can be better due to overcoming genetic issues. So, does anyone know what the best crosses are (with dalmations), and how one goes about finding reputable people who breed them?

For the record, we would love to consider a rescue, but as we have primary school aged children and will do for some time, it’s not an option for us this time.

TIA

See now I've had a Border Collie too and would say they're every bit as complex as a Dalmatian but more intelligent and need more stimulation. That said OP sounds like a very active household so would be good, you can't wear a Collie out though and they can be nippy if not cared for correctly
I also have a border collie and know others with them too.
I disagree they need lots of stimulation.
Mine is the most easily over stimulated of the ones I know, too much (high excitement) exercise, ball fetching for example, and mental exercise like brain games and training and she gets anxious and unpleasant.

But relaxed walking and/or running, whether that’s for 30 mins or 4 hours and she’s happy.

She pretty much spends all her time indoors asleep.

None of the people I know with collies, myself included, do much ‘mental stimulation’ and give a lot less exercise than people say they need too, we all have nice calm dogs.

And while some can be a bit nippy, they herd primarily be ‘eye’, they don’t tend to herd as much by nipping unlike corgis and heelers and the like.

Mine has a very strong ‘eye’ but never nipped.

frostedviolets

Do you think it depends if they come from proper working stock?

I wouldn’t have a Dalmatian as a first dog. And I got a wolfhound as a first dog!
Health issues aside they can be utterly bonkers and really hard work.
And a Dalmatian cross? Your vet is being ridiculous. A decent Dalmatian breeder won’t churn out crosses and a rubbish one is very unlikely to health test.
Crosses aren’t inherently more healthy.

Rather than setting your sights on a breed based on aesthetics I'd advise you meet different breeds. Right now is a very difficult and expensive time to be looking for a puppy. If you can get to dog shows or discover dogs if or when they are back on I'd recommend it.

Discover dogs is in London around November time, and there are breed booths for you to chat with owners and get a good insight for the breed. When I was looking for my new puppy I went to discover dogs at crufts to chat with owners and from there I narrowed it down to the breed I eventually chose.

See now I've had a Border Collie too and would say they're every bit as complex as a Dalmatian but more intelligent and need more stimulation. That said OP sounds like a very active household so would be good, you can't wear a Collie out though and they can be nippy if not cared for correctly.

I'm another that totally disagrees with this. All loads of exercise does is create a dog that needs loads of exercise.

I'm a dog-walker and have three collies on my books - all from different backgrounds and too much exercise and ball/stick throwing sends them all loopy. A nice hour off-lead with a chance to run about and maybe play with another dog or two, and they're all out for the count. Add in some brain stimulation and they're golden.

I do think it's a bit if a myth that working breeds need a ton of physical exercise - my beagle is a nightmare with too much exercise and stimulation - he becomes really over-hyped and silly. Whereas, like the collies, if he gets an hour off-lead to run, he'll just sleep all day.

Over-exercising and over-stimulation is just as dangerous as not enough exercise and stimulation.

In what way?
As in workers needing more stimulation/exercise?

All of the collies I know are working stock so I can’t compare them too much to the show/pet lines aside from saying it is my personal view that working breeds should be bred with the intention of working else you can lose certain personality traits, imo.

One of the collies I know is a failed sheepdog rescue and the rest, including mine, were bought as puppies from working parents.

I don’t know about the others degree of working instinct because they haven’t been put to livestock, they are purely pets, but we used to have chickens and my collie would herd them, I could ask her to put them in a specific place, like the windowsill or in the coop and she could with no prior training.
She would have made a great working dog I think.

She’s a lovely pet actually, super gentle and calm but you do have to be careful to keep ‘exciting’ things to a minimum with her.

All the collies I know are calm, placid dogs.
In a home environment anyway, as you said there’s no tiring them and they can go all day outside if required.

I think, that in the absence of sheep herding, collies do better with a ‘quieter’ life, more long, relaxed country walks and less agility and the like.

I got a puppy in June, I had been on the breeders waiting list for about a year, I spent about six months before then researching different breeds, going to dog shows etc.

My five year old desperately wanted a cockapoo as a friend has one, I don’t dislike them but I’m not overly keen. Plus each parent still needs breed specific testing etc despite being a heinz 57. Plus I would personally question the ethnics of someone making crossbreeda.

I settled on a Shiba Inu, knowing that they’re stubborn etc as they would suit our life style. They are extremely cute, but that isn’t really a big consideration and their cuteness comes at a price, fur, fur everywhere!

A cockapoo would have probably been easier to find, cheaper to buy and easier to train. But as I’m the adult responsible for the dog I’m the one who gets to choose the breed.

I focused on
Size small enough to carry upstairs (live in a flat)
Energy levels as we’re a very active family
Need for time with me (would need doggy daycare)
Confident in new areas etc

I wouldn’t particularly look at whether a breed is supposed to be active or not if you’re an active family btw.

There are a few breeds not so suited to being a running companion and long hikes, but really not many.

What active usually means in dogs isn’t actually whether they need lots of exercise, most dogs will happily do human levels of active - it’s whether they’ll need extra mental stimulation over what most pet dog owners tend to do.

If what you want is a dog to train to a fairly basic level, play a bit and keep you company while you do what you pretty much already do... it really only rules out a few breeds... some of your toy companion breeds, anything bred so it’ll overheat or can’t breathe and some sighthounds are a bit hit or miss over extra walking that’s not just a shorter sprint.

Barring those, any healthy adult dog would be quite comfortable doing the levels of exercise you’re talking about.

Thanks again everyone. Funnily enough, we had a border collie when I was a kid and my brother has them now.

DH is keen on a golden retriever as he has had those in the past. I think that might suit us better really, but it’s always good to be fully informed.

We aren’t going to choose based ultimately on aesthetics, and have been on a retriever breeder’s books for a while, but I think they are giving up which is why we are looking at other breeds.

I’ll look into Discover Dogs. Talking to local people with dogs doesn’t seem particularly helpful. The owner of the Dalmatian we see, for example, reckons he is more than okay on two walks a day (which we know is not typical, but he does seem to be happy). We also regularly see a small Labrador drag his owner past our window. I know a lot of that is down to training, but we ultimately want something that will be happy with our family.

All the collies I know are calm, placid dogs. I would not say this is the norm for all collies. Many are active, intelligent and need a lot of stimulation.

My collies have about 2.5 hours exercise a day but need that again in mental stimulation. Personally I would be worried if a collie slept all day after an hours walk. To me that would be an ill, or depressed dog.

I love collies because they are active and do need a lot of time spent on them and I feel that this is the norm. If you want a dog that sleeps all day get a greyhound.

I am worried the message that collies are low exercise will be interpreted as low maintenance and they are not.

Hi @Equimum my brother has a Dalmatian and it was our family pet growing up. My brothers doesn’t need anywhere near the exercise others list here. Goes on a one hour walk a day and potters around the garden the rest of the time. Tends to be out for the count in front of the fire from 7pm till bedtime and also doesn’t even bother going out for a pee in morning until 10. This was also our experience growing up with one. Not anywhere near as high energy as discussed here.

Two issues are outrageous molting
And our female had phantom pregnancies which was annoying.

I should say ours was also excellent with children. Our little cousins would sometimes pull her tail and she wouldn’t even react.

Maybe they just sleep all day after because they know nothing exciting will happen after the walk?

Mine will sleep all day, but magically pops up within seconds of a biscuit wrapper opening even if she’s been upstairs and she’ll happily catch a thrown toy indoors all day if you let her.

But I very rarely throw toys in the house and I’m trying to diet so no biscuits so she sleeps...

I don’t think she is sick or depressed.
She is more than capable of going all day outside, indeed in the summer we often do walk all day from early in the morning to early evening stopping at various pubs.

My collies have about 2.5 hours exercise a day but need that again in mental stimulation. Personally I would be worried if a collie slept all day after an hours walk. To me that would be an ill, or depressed dog.

Why on earth would you think that? Dogs get used to what you give them - there is no way most dogs need 5 hours of exercise and stimulation per day - they just don't. They might accept it if you give it to them, but that's very different from them genuinely needing it.

My beagle could happily go all day, but it wouldn't be good for him mentally. Dogs need to learn to settle and be calm, and they won't learn that by being on the go all day imo.

I walk three collies and none of them need anything close to five hours hours of "work" on them a day - in fact, they don't even need half that. By all means, spend that much time on them if you want, but it's not necessary by any stretch of the imagination.

@vanillandhoney

My collies have about 2.5 hours exercise a day but need that again in mental stimulation. Personally I would be worried if a collie slept all day after an hours walk. To me that would be an ill, or depressed dog.

Why on earth would you think that? Dogs get used to what you give them - there is no way most dogs need 5 hours of exercise and stimulation per day - they just don't. They might accept it if you give it to them, but that's very different from them genuinely needing it.

My beagle could happily go all day, but it wouldn't be good for him mentally. Dogs need to learn to settle and be calm, and they won't learn that by being on the go all day imo.

I walk three collies and none of them need anything close to five hours hours of "work" on them a day - in fact, they don't even need half that. By all means, spend that much time on them if you want, but it's not necessary by any stretch of the imagination.

Why on earth would I think that? Because I have owned collies for way too many years to mention and a happy collie is a stimulated collie.

Yes dogs are adaptable that is how they have survived living with humans. However some breeds do need more "to do" and are happier for it.

You "walk" three collies so are obvioulsy an expert but most collie owners love to own collies because they do want to be doing things for more than a hour a day.

Collies will survive and adapt on less but will have a much happier stimulated life if they are given more to do. Not just exercise but brain work - not ball chasing or being pushed to exhaustion but targetted stimulating activities.

Other dogs however like greyhounds would not want to be doing more than lying with their feet up on the sofa all day. - so match the dogs to your needs rather than change the dogs need to suit you.

I grew up with a dalmatian. He slept under my pram as an infant, and was there during my learning to walk years. He was always entirely kind to me as a child, even when I would walk holding his tail and step on him to get to the sofa. (Not that this was a good thing, of course, but just to explain he was tolerant beyond measure when I was around.) I know that my mum struggled to walk him on lead, and so dad did much of his exercise. But at the time we lived out in the countryside with a lot of outdoor space, so he had fields and woods in which to roam. He came to us from a family member who bred dalmatians, so we may have had the choice of a litter to get the temperament most suited to us. He wasn't the easiest dog we ever had ( prone to sulking in the corner and trying to eat bees) but he was a great part of the family.

Why on earth would I think that? Because I have owned collies for way too many years to mention and a happy collie is a stimulated collie.

But you can have a stimulated collie without working them with exercise and stimulation for five hours a day, which is my point. Even working dogs don't spend five hours a day, everyday busy, active and working. There's plenty of downtime too.

I don't claim to be an expert at all, but I don't believe any dog needs five hours of exercise and stimulation every single day in order to be happy. Just because they accept it and enjoy it, doesn't mean they need it.

All the dogs I walk are pet dogs, none of them have ever worked and none of them have ever had five hours of exercise and stimulation on a daily basis. As a one off on a long weekend walk, absolutely, but not daily. Not even close. They're all happy, well-settled, not destructive and very contented animals.

Good I am glad the collies you walk are happy and you can judge on their welfare when you see them 1 hour a day. I do not walk my dogs for 5 hours and have never said that.

The only reason I am commenting is that many people get collies and think they fit into a normal pet home - some do but the rescue I foster for will also show that many collies are rehomed due to their needs not being meet. All 6 of mine are rescued collies who were too much for an average home.

For you to say a collie only needs one hour exercise a day is incorrect and misleading.

Sorry OP for going off track but it is important that people do not think active breeds will happily settle into the expectations of their owners and all dogs are happy with that situation. If that were the case there would be many less dogs in rescue!

@PollyPolson

Good I am glad the collies you walk are happy and you can judge on their welfare when you see them 1 hour a day. I do not walk my dogs for 5 hours and have never said that.

The only reason I am commenting is that many people get collies and think they fit into a normal pet home - some do but the rescue I foster for will also show that many collies are rehomed due to their needs not being meet. All 6 of mine are rescued collies who were too much for an average home.

For you to say a collie only needs one hour exercise a day is incorrect and misleading.

Sorry OP for going off track but it is important that people do not think active breeds will happily settle into the expectations of their owners and all dogs are happy with that situation. If that were the case there would be many less dogs in rescue!

I've never said they only need an hour a day, nor have I ever said I only see them for an hour a day - those are both untrue assumptions on your part.

I also never said you walked them five hours a day. You said you gave them 2.5 hours exercise and the same again in mental stimulation, which means you spend, as I said, five hours a day, either exercising or stimulating your dogs.

I agree that people should do their research before getting a dog of any breed, but I do disagree (as does frostedviolets who owns collies herself) that they need as much input as you give them.

but it is important that people do not think active breeds will happily settle into the expectations of their owners and all dogs are happy with that situation. If that were the case there would be many less dogs in rescue
Perhaps, but then I wonder whether genetics comes into this more than breed and I am not referring to working ability at all by ‘genetics’.

Because in all breeds of dogs, individuals have different temperaments and those temperaments are often passed down.

You can get whole generations of working line labradors say for example who relatively consistently produce calm, relaxed offspring and generations of working line labradors that produce dogs that are very hyper/poor self control/no off switch.

My dog is quite calm and placid, her mum was also really calm and placid.

I wonder if the collies you have that are ‘too much for the average home’ are maybe too much because they were poorly bred and a bit too high strung/reactive maybe?

Maybe ‘poorly bred’ is a tad harsh actually.
From a line that produces dogs who struggle to ‘switch off’ and are very highly strung, the sort of dog that gets stressed without work is maybe a better description.

When you do settle on a breed be sure to find out the parents temperament as you can see from the debates here even buying a specific breed doesn't mean they will be a certain way. I have two retrievers one is pretty chill happy to run round the garden, play with the neighbours dogs and stroll next to me on walks. She is fit enough to walk far but definitely doesn't need it to be happy. The other is full of energy, gets very very stressed if she doesn't get a good off lead run, can walk for hours only to get home nap for 5 minutes then spend hours running round the garden. Their breed is the same, their food is pretty similar (one has allergies) and their training/environment is identical and theirs only 1 year age difference but they are very very different characters.

@frostedviolets

but it is important that people do not think active breeds will happily settle into the expectations of their owners and all dogs are happy with that situation. If that were the case there would be many less dogs in rescue Perhaps, but then I wonder whether genetics comes into this more than breed and I am not referring to working ability at all by ‘genetics’.

Because in all breeds of dogs, individuals have different temperaments and those temperaments are often passed down.

You can get whole generations of working line labradors say for example who relatively consistently produce calm, relaxed offspring and generations of working line labradors that produce dogs that are very hyper/poor self control/no off switch.

My dog is quite calm and placid, her mum was also really calm and placid.

I wonder if the collies you have that are ‘too much for the average home’ are maybe too much because they were poorly bred and a bit too high strung/reactive maybe?

Fgs collies are high energy dogs - they need to be, they want to be, they work in the hills for hours. That is the average collie. Of course some will be less energetic, some due to boredom some due to temperament and some it sounds like they have no choice.

I am sure all my collies I have ever owned are down to poor breeding !!!! tell that to the champion sheep dog breeder that some came from. Breed to be calm, intelligent and healthy.

Tbh honest the most jittery collies tend to be show breed collies not the working dogs.

My dogs are calm, two are search and rescue dogs who find vunerable people and are as gently and calm as can be BUT they are also high energy and love to be busy. Outing but one is a medical detection dog, also has to be very calm but also very driven.

I am very glad and they are too that they are not restricted to a boring life with no stimulation and a hours walk. Fine if yours are but as I have said before and as everyone knows collies love to be busy and to say that most collies need limited exercise is ridiculous and misleading. I hope you are ready to pick up the rescues that will be rehomed for you giving out this incorrect advice.

Off to do something more rewarding with the dogs than keep stating the obvious here......

Gosh.
Firstly, didn’t mean to cause any offence (your tones sounds like I might have) and secondly, I wasn’t suggesting that they didn’t need much exercise.
Just that they perhaps don’t need the excessive amounts people think they do.

FGS collies are high energy dogs - they need to be, they want to be, they work in the hills for hours. That is the average collie
My dogs mum was a working sheepdog.
When not working she was a calm, placid dog.

My dog was the only one of the litter to go to a pet home, all the rest went to working, farming homes.

I wasn’t suggesting they weren’t capable of a days working in the hills, just that some lines of collies, including working lines can be relatively calm, placid animals.

I am sure all my collies I have ever owned are down to poor breeding !!!! tell that to the champion sheep dog breeder that some came from
I thought they were rescues?
How do you know their breeder?

Breed to be calm, intelligent and healthy
But you were suggesting that they weren’t calm and placid?
That they needed 2.5 hours of exercise and 2.5 hours of mental stimulation

Tbh honest the most jittery collies tend to be show breed collies not the working dogs
Agreed

My dogs are calm, two are search and rescue dogs who find vunerable people and are as gently and calm as can be BUT they are also high energy and love to be busy. Outing but one is a medical detection dog, also has to be very calm but also very driven
But you said they need 5 hours (mental and physical) stimulation daily?
I think we have very different definitions of what constitutes ‘calm’

I am very glad and they are too that they are not restricted to a boring life with no stimulation and a hours walk
My collie gets a variety of walk times, varied from 30 minutes to 4 hours, sometimes in the summer she’ll be out all day stopping for a small ice cream or a chip or two with us.
Some days she gets no walks at all.
She seems quite happy!
Lots of stimulation doesn’t suit her, it might be alright for others but it gets her agitated.

everyone knows collies love to be busy and to say that most collies need limited exercise is ridiculous and misleading
I wasn’t suggesting that.
I was saying that they don’t need hours and hours of training and exercise.
In fact, I think my exact words were I felt they were better suited to a “calmer life with long country walks and less agility and the like”