I've been asked to agree to new neighbours having a dog

[whatcolourisyourthursday]

Hi dog experts,
We're the freeholders of a block of flats (converted Victorian) and the about-to-buy purchaser of one of the flats has asked if they can have a dog (the lease forbids it but we can consent).
They are suggesting a labrador which from my point of view seems a good choice as they seem like neighbour-friendly dogs. But I don't know much about dogs. Does a labrador seem like a good neighbour-friendly breed? There's a communal garden but the flat is on the 3rd floor and there's a carpet so there are some practical issues.

If you say yes does this create a precedent. What if everybody had a dog. If you say yes to one and say no to someone else how does that impact you.

@whatcolourisyourthursday

I feel guilty because it has taken a long time for the seller - who is my friend - to sell and I owe her lot/we have been through a lot together and I am pleased for her because she has finally got a sale.

Will you still be such good friends when she moves away?

I would say no. There are very good practical reasons why it is established as no dogs on leases for flats. (1) It is unfair on the dog to not have ready secure access to outside space from their owners door - Labs need a ready garden to have a run in (2) All flats in the building should have the same agreement. If you start to allow a dog for one you will be obliged to allow it for all (3) It is not fair on owners of the other flats for whom the absence of dogs may be important, to then start to allow them (4) Dogs do make noise. They just do. Labradors will guard their home/territory. There will be plenty of barking. Labradors also need a great deal of exercise and training and will behave badly if that is not provided.
I wouldn't do it. You may find yourself on a legal slippery slope if you do.

[quote CatandtheFiddle]@SimonJT A Victorian conversion flat is highly unlikely to have a balcony.[/quote]
I wasn’t suggesting they did, but I was more pointing out that unless you saw the dog/s you wouldn’t know they live in the building.

Cat yes
Dog no

actually they will have a roof terrace (access to a drain pipe).

mind you, it currently overflows on to my head when I'm in my garden :)

If I moved into a pet free building and the freeholder let a new leaseholder have a dog I would be getting in touch with my solicitor. I wanted a dog when I was in a second floor flat but I couldn’t (because I’m not a dick to my neighbours and because the lease forbid it) so I waited until I moved into a house.

I don’t think I would chose a Labrador if I lived in a third floor flat
Labradors are big dogs. They should be in a home with a reasonable sized garden

I don’t think it’s fair on any dog not to have instant easy access to an outdoor space

If I lived in a communal garden I wouldn’t be bothered by a well behaved dog but there will be plenty who are

Also think if you ever moved it could throw a spanner in the works ?

So I would feel bad but I would say no

@whatcolourisyourthursday

actually they will have a roof terrace (access to a drain pipe).

mind you, it currently overflows on to my head when I'm in my garden :)

Is this a serious thread?

If you let one person have a dog then you won't be able to stop anyone else. They are nuts to get a dog without direct access to a garden. Labradors are generally friendly, but another flat owner may get something entirely different.

Personally I think it's unfair to keep a labrador (a large dog) in a flat anyway especially if they are out at work all day once Covid is over, if ever.

If you say yes in this case you set a precedent for everyone else to ask to have a dog in their flat. Sorry about your friend but it's really not on to agree to this buyer's request.

I don't think keeping a labrador in a third-floor flat is a good idea, whether you agree to it or not. It's not fair on the dog

I agree. I have dogs. I've always had dogs. This is unfair. Ground floor with a garden yes, third floor, no.

Just add in - communal areas are carpeted, so who cleans up the dog hair and what about the muddy paw prints after walks?

What if the dog/puppy has accidents on the carpet, what is the expectation to replace?

What if one of the other owners is allergic to dogs and now the communal areas are covered in dog hair (and believe me, they will be)

Lets hope the dog doesn't fling itself off the roof terrace. Is this thread a wind up.

the camber of the roof terrace isn't very good so water pools and my friend has to sweep it off with a broom.

I wouldn't agree to this, (and I love dogs). Even if one is a good dog, a nice breed, and with good, considerate owners, you'd be setting a precident for everyone in the flats, and all sorts of dogs with any possible behavior issues too.

I'd also doubt that people who are planning to keep a labrador in a 3rd floor flat will necessarily be good, responsible, considerate dog owners, or good neighbours.

Take the friendship issue, would your friend really expect you to become liable for a whole load of legal issues over her selling her flat to a dog owner? If she's the sort of friend who will give you hassle because you want her potential sellers to follow the same rules as everyone else then she's not much of a friend.

@whatcolourisyourthursday if you are truly the freeholder and this isn't a reverse you need to think of the freehold as an investment.

You say yes to this dog and then all hell breaks lose. The dog barks 24/7. There is wee and poo in all the communal garden areas. The dog wrecks the communal hallway carpet by scratching it or shitting on it.

Then the other leaseholders start complaining to you as the freeholder. It is your LEGAL responsibility to uphold the leases. You fart around like you have on here and they get pissed off and take you to court for failing to uphold the lease conditions. They win and you have to pay them compensation and legal fees as well as your own legal fees.

You then have to tell the leaseholder with the dog that they have to get rid of their much beloved pet as the judge ruled against you. How well will that go down? They refuse. You have to take legal action against them to get rid of the dog costing you more in legal fees. You could be down 20-30k instantly!

You have a legal obligation to stick to the lease conditions!

Im afraid I'd refuse and I'm a dog owner. Living in a flat with a shared garden and having a dog seems like a recipe for disaster.

Not practical to have a big bouncy dog in a flat they need access to a garden or it will feel cooped up it’s not fair on the dog

Totally unfair on the other neighbours who might have factored that there would be no dogs in the building when THEY bought. And yes, that communal garden will be full of dog poo and wee, and you'll get loads of complaints that the others can't enjoy it.

It's a really bad idea to give in just because the vendor is your friend.

Just noticed that you are worried as the vendor of the flat is a friend.

So your friend sells and buggers off to her new place. You are stuck with irate leaseholders who are totally pissed off with you as the freeholder. Again legal action could be taken. But even if they didn't having a bunch of irate leaseholders is not going to make managing the freehold any easier for you.

You really need to get your business head on. The responsibilities of being the freeholder are not to be taken lightly.

Personally if you are that slack at being a freeholder and want to put your friends wants when she is buggering off anyway, you deserve all the hassle you may get.

Hopefully the other leaseholders may get together and force the sale of the freehold. They may have more responsibility.

It would be a no from me!

i have an 8 month old labrador

i dont think its a good idea is all i will say!

You would be failing in your obligation as a freeholder if you gave permission contrary to the letter of the lease. The other leaseholders could hold you to account for failing to enforce the contract terms on which they purchased their properties.

A legal case has just been through the FTT and associated courts on this specific subject, I'd suggest you become really well acquainted with it before making a decision...