Should we let our beautiful lab have puppies?

[SmiledWithTheRisingSun]

I know it would be SUPER hard work. But I really live the idea of letting yer have a litter & the kids are desperate to have pups. Then at the same time the grown up sensible side of me says it would just mean shovelling poo for 12 weeks & no sleep.... can anyone share their experiences of doing this? What are the pros & cons? 🐾

@icedaisy thank you so much for your reply! Lots to think about. Clearly it's not a decision to be made lightly!

Apparently it's good for bitches to have a litter - reduces chances of them getting hormone related cancer

Or you could just get her spayed.

No.

Could you forgive yourself if she died as a result?

Is it worth risking your dog's life? A very easy answer from me...

’There is no medical reason to let a bitch have one litter before spay, in fact some of the benefits like protection against mammary tumours, are lost if the operation is delayed’

Vethelpdirect

’There is no evidence allowing a bitch “just one” litter confers any health benefit ’

Baldockvets.com

’There is no medical reason to let a bitch have one season or a litter before her spay operation, in fact some of the benefits like protection against mammary tumours can be lost if the operation is delayed.’

Crownvets.co.uk

’There are no recorded health benefits for a dog to have a litter ...This means that there is no reason to let your dog have a litter, and in fact delaying neutering increases the change of negative consequences such as cancers, infections and phantom pregnancies developing.’

Vets4Pets.com

’There is no need for your pet to have a litter before being neutered. There are no physical or mental advantages for a bitch having a litter prior to spaying. It is one of the common myths that they should have a litter.‘

Scarsdalevets.com

Thanks @Glowcat

I don't agree with it no, as pp says, too many dogs are pts every day, as just not enough good homes.
Also, most Good breeders, have a clause in the contract that you can not breed from them, without their permission, did you sign that?
I had one with my IRWS, but that is a few years ago now.

When you say “let” her have puppies you are suggesting it’s something she wants and you can allow to happen
You would actually have to do a lot of work both before and after mating and I very much doubt your dog is very bothered
Are you prepared to lose her if it goes wrong?
There’s absolutely no reason for you to do this, yes puppies are cute but there is hardly a shortage of them (although recent prices suggest otherwise)

My neighbour did this. They very much admit it was a bad idea and would never do it again.

They did find homes for and sell five of the puppies, but even at nearly a grand each they made a hefty loss. Stud fees, vet care, time off work to assist with whelping, plus sleepless nights etc.

They kept one puppy, which died shortly after all the other puppies had gone to their homes.

It was not a positive experience for them. They also had me to help out, i have a lot of animal experience so would puppy sit so they could go to the shop, have a break, go to work etc. It’s a full time job.

Don't be selfish. Don't put your dog through this because your kids are 'desperate for puppies'

No.

I have a pedigree dog. I’m not against pedigree dogs. I’m not against breeding as a commercial venture, per se, so long as it is being done ethically and the dogs’ health & wellbeing are an absolute priority for the breeder. All breeders start somewhere.

I would absolutely heed the wise words of @icedaisy. It’s good advice.

As for having a litter to reduce the incidence of certain female cancers. Have you looked into that properly? Have you read research and looked at the actual numbers? There is a big literature review on the subject of neutering and joint disorders and cancers in labs & goldens. The risks of female cancers are already pretty low in labs. Get her spayed to reduce them further.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4096726/?fbclid=IwAR3ujS6Ja-UVZbCticWUf10rzFnGBf2YPx9wiXGJgLlkj9-0kpndROUUW0U

From my background in the Veterinary world I would advise not to, it's very expensive, hard work and things do go wrong and end badly. There is no health advantage to having a litter, it is much more beneficial to have her spayed. You dont make money from it unless you really know what you are doing and are lucky not to run into Veterinary Bill's. Also there are going to be so many dogs in rescues once the lockdown puppies get dumped it's not really ethical to breed more

I'd love to know where people get the information that it's healthier to have at least one litter, when every veterinary and welfare organisation clearly states otherwise.

You have lots of good advice here OP and lots to think about.

Thinking more this morning, for both myself and my friend the dogs are our life's work.

For her, she shows at champion level and grooms professionally.

I am a farmers wife and whilst show low level, tend to do more agility and working dog training.

Together we have seen it all I would imagine.

One final thought, breeding a litter of puppies responsibly is a life long commitment.

Whilst rare with friends standard and reputation, we have been required to take two back over the years. Both due to huge tragedy in buyers life but still, both returned immediately. That in itself is a commitment. Did I need a grieving, isolated dog coming back when I have young children, absolutely not. But it's what is absolutely required of me.

If you are serious and doing this for the right reasons I suggest that you go back to her breeder and talk to them. If they are a good breeder they will have put breeding restrictions on her anyway which will need to be lifted in order to have her offspring KC registered.

Your breeder may like to act as a mentor for you, to help you pick a stud and help with the whelping and raising a well socialised litter. You will need to do all of the relevant health testing which is expensive particularly getting her hips and elbows xrayed.

If something goes wrong will you be able to pay for a pricey c-section and be prepared that your dog may die in the process and you'll be forced to hand rear a litter.

Puppies may sound like a fun idea, but in reality they are very very hard work. Particularly if you want to raise a well adjusted puppies ready for their new lives.

I’m not against the idea of pets having a litter per se, but the problem with this is that generally someone who decides to let their dog have “a litter of puppies” is generally doing it for the wrong reasons and as such doesn’t do the proper research or put proper steps in place to ensure the long-term welfare of their puppies.

When I was growing up getting a dog from an actual breeder was almost the preserve of the elite, while most people did just have a friend whose dog had puppies or found an ad in the local paper.

But now animals have become a commodity for those who are selling them, and often a toy for those who buy them. How many times have you heard someone say for instance “I would love to get a puppy because I think it would be so lovely to have a dog, or for the kids to grow up with a dog.” And then when the puppy comes home and the reality hits having a puppy didn’t seem like such a good idea at all, and so many of those dogs end up in shelters or just being given away to the next excited friend desperate for a dog who then realises it ain’t all cracked up to be and the cycle continues.

Gumtree and Pets4Homes is full of adverts for dogs at hugely inflated prices, and this would only be the case if there was a market for those dogs, but you can’t tell me that everyone who buys a puppy from gumtree is going to give it a wonderful life. And there’s no way of knowing if they would.

When I was growing up our dog had puppies. We lived in a small town so knew everyone who would want to have one. We sold three and kept one.

Two of the puppies who went to other homes lived a fantastic life. But the other one, who went to someone we thought we knew, ended up having three litters in two years and then died under the anaesthetic when she went in to be spayed.

There really just is no way of knowing who these dogs are going to. Even if you’re a breeder there will be times when what you thought was a suitable home turns out not to be, and they have experience of vetting homes. As a backyard breeder there’s no way you can possibly vet homes suitably.

My animals have always been spayed at the earliest opportunity, but even if by some chance I ended up with puppies or kittens I would feel so responsible for them that I’d end up having to keep them all. which is why it will never happen on my watch...

PS: when I used the term backyard breeder it wasn’t intended as an insult, purely to differentiate between someone who decides to breed the family pet and someone who breeds dogs for a living and as a vocation.

But on that point, many people do assume backyard breeders to be puppy farmers which, while they’re not, you might want to think about whether you want that term to be applied to you.

Stop kidding yourself that you’re doing it for the children. Your follow up shows that you’re planning on only paying attention to the posters that agree with you. You didn’t come on here to get opinions, you came on for validation and now you’re going to have your bitch impregnated in the hope of making money from her. At least be honest and just ask the questions that you want answered, regarding breeding from and making profit of your bitch.

We REALLY wanted to do this with our Cavalier, but it would only have been if we could keep one as I know the kids would be heartbroken to rehome them all. And my husband is adamant that one dog at a time is the limit! Also the vet explained that it is healthier to have a female spayed.

Another 'no' - just because there are so many unwanted dogs already.

As we come out of lockdown I suspect rescues and the 'second hand' dog market will be swamped with dogs bought for lockdown whose owners are only just realising the hard work involved, just as they have to go back to work and/or want to go on holiday, as the novelty of the dog is wearing off and it's grown from a cute puppy to a boundary-testing teenager. Do those poor dogs a favour and don't add to numbers looking for a home.

Of course you shouldn’t! There are so many dogs in shelters because of people like you.

If your DC are genuinely interested in dogs and your own isn't sufficient, then maybe do a sponsorship with eg Dogs' Trust. The magazine will give them photos of cute pups, heatwarming stories about happy rehomes - but also some of the reality behind it. I'm assuming they're not small kids who can take that on board. (Otherwise, whether they're 'desperate' for a pup or not has about as much relevance as wanting a unicorn).

It's not amazingly lucrative at all, especially if you have the mum not the stud.
Again apart from anything else, you would need to be prepared to take back the dogs from the litter at any point.
Also unless you know personally the potential homes in advance, you run the risk of some of your puppies ending up with a miserable life.

Puppies are cute, no-one would deny that. Why not go on the waiting list for a new puppy?

My main concern is the amount of puppies available right now and what is going to happen to them.

It's not what you want to hear OP but I would strongly caution against going ahead. At least wait a year or two.

Do not mate the bitch until you have a solid ‘interested’ list of 1.5x the typical litter size for the breed (excess because some people will not wait for you)

There is widely expected to be a huge oversupply of post-Covid relinquished pets, coinciding with the results of first post-Covid matings.

The current (ridiculously high) puppy prices won’t last

What will you do with unsold puppies?