Can a prey drive be overcome?

[Worrieddog]

Hi all,

I have name changed for this as I am worried about this query may be viewed. It is a genuine question from a longstanding, well meaning member. We recently adopted a rescue dog (last week). He is our first dog as a family, but both myself and DH had dogs before this. We also have two cats and three kids (9, 7 and nearly 3).

Our dog is a beautiful, huge GSD x Lurcher. We were drawn to him as he was described as very good with kids and other animals. We met him twice before bringing him home, passed the homecheck and spoke with the rescue about the match. They were very positive about the match and seemed thorough! Since bringing him home, he is making huge efforts to catch the cats and they are terrified. I don't think it's just curiosity, he is incredibly fast and clever. I know it's very early days and am fully prepared to give him time to settle but from what I have read, some animals cannot overcome this drive and it cannot be trained out? What are your views? We are committed to him but would never forgive myself if he killed one of the cats. He is just a year old and was in foster care on a farm for the past two months with no trouble. Prior to that he was in a pound for a few months. As far as I know, he wasn't mistreated, just abandoned by his owners.

I would really appreciate any advice or views from experienced dog owners. Thanks

We pretty much did with our greyhound. It took 18 months though. We were just at the point where the cat could walk past, we would tell the dog to ‘leave it’ and she would. It was hard work though. And then the cat had to be put down after an unrelated accident.

And this ‘just be firm’ advice the rescue has given.
It’s not at all unheard of for dogs to run through electric fences in pursuit of something.
When the adrenaline is going, they don’t register much.
They only have their eyes on the prize.

So even if you really went to town and tried to put the fear of god into the dog, I’m still not convinced it would stop.

If he did, I imagine he would simply wait until you weren’t looking to predate on them

Have a look at other greyhound advice actually. There’s another really helpful article somewhere which I’ll try and find.

www.greyhoundtrust.org.uk/assets/000/001/288/Cats_PDF_original.pdf

@RedRed9 lurcher = sighthound + anything

I don’t think you can train this out of your dog - it’s an innate urge. As pp mentioned, hunting instincts are so strong & thrilling for dogs that some get tunnel vision - they are that intensely fixated on their prey where no food or distractions will stop them. Essentially, hunting is their ultimate favourite

I’m glad you’re a responsible enough pet owner to see there’s an issue. A popular YouTuber went through the same, but didn’t even register his dog’s behaviour as prey drive. He just thought it was “cute” and actually said that his female dog (who had a litter previously) thought the kittens were “her babies” - apparently she was just being a “mama bear”

I think as you’ve only had the dog a week it would be worth discussing this with the rescue and see what they advise. Or even contact a specialist dog behaviourist. Worst case scenario, you may need to potentially “return” him to protect your cats

no, this cannot be trained out, he cannot be trusted. I say this from sad experience, our old cat was killed by a rescue we had for a week, basically they had stretched the truth about his issues in order to rehome him. My friend got a rescue lurcher that killed a stray she was feeding outside, which had been fine with her greyhounds.

We got a rescue once, after that, who lasted 24 hrs as we could see that her prey drive was enormous, again, the rescue had not properly cat tested. I currently have two rescue dogs that chase my cat, a new arrival has put the older dog back in his training, but I am seriously not worried, because pissed off though the cat is, I can pick her up and bring her into the room with me and they ignore her. They chase her because the idiot runs (old cat would have made mincemeat of the new dog, she frequently whacked the older one, just because).

You can see the difference between "fun to chase because it runs" and "I want to kill it", you can train the first, not the second in my experience. Cut your losses. I've never forgiven myself for having to take my lovely old cat to the vet to be PTS after the dog got him. Never again.

Lurchers can be trained to live happily with cats. Some lurchers cannot. In order to train them they have to be distractable with food and what from what you've described he isnt? Is he more interested in the cats than a piece of ham/sausage?

You need to get back on to the rescue.

Read this with interest. As my recent name change suggest, we recently welcomed a lurcher pup into our family. My understanding is, if puppies grow up with cats then they know they are not prey - at least the ones in their own house...

Reading this makes me nervous though. Our 11 week old pup persists in chasing the cat, trying to play, barking at it etc. The cat has absolutely shown her who’s boss though, hissing and swiping - pup always seems terrified and backs off. However, puppy doesn’t seem to always remember what she’s learnt, and is beginning to seem bolder with the cat. Reading this has made me a bit worried about instinct though . Obviously I’d never trust her around ‘unknown’ small furries out and about, but can I presume she will be ok with our cat, given she’s been raised with her? Thanks.

Ps - incidentally, this was the very reason we went for a puppy rather than a rescue! But I hope I haven’t been lulled into a false sense of security here.

My experience with lurchers (they're all very different) is that the prey drive is unchangeable. They can learn to live with cats in the house (sometimes) and they can sometimes be taught decent recall. Mine has perfect recall - unless she sees something worth chasing. And that seems to be the general experience of most other lurcher owners I know. The GSD in yours might help with control though!

Our 11 week old pup persists in chasing the cat, trying to play, barking at it etc
The cat has absolutely shown her who’s boss though, hissing and swiping - pup always seems terrified and backs off However, puppy doesn’t seem to always remember what she’s learnt, and is beginning to seem bolder with the cat
Reading this has made me a bit worried about instinct though but can I presume she will be ok with our cat, given she’s been raised with her

Imo, you need to correct the puppy each and every time for bad behaviour to the cat, like trying to chase.
For me, that would be a verbal ‘ah’ then a brief time out.
I don’t think it’s fair nor safe to leave it to the cat to discipline.
I would also reward each and every time he ignores the cat.

Sighthounds & cats can coexist happily, but the dog needs to be taught to respect the cats. We had a lurcher (whippet/greyhound x collie) and two cats. The cats were adults when the lurcher puppy appeared. They had great fun beating the puppy up and showing him who was boss, which we obviously encouraged. For the rest of his life, he would chase rabbits & squirrels at and opportunity but he had healthy respect for cats. Obviously, introducing an adult lurcher to cats might be a different matter.

It might be worth getting in touch with Jim Greenwood who is a hugely respected sighthound trainer - he is based be Crewe but travels (in normal times) and gives advice over the phone. He might have some good training ideas.

Could you muzzle your dog whilst near your cats? We muzzle ours when we visit the in-laws as they have a very flighty Siamese. But ours is muzzle trained as she wears it on walks - it's important you don't just shove one on. If you look up The Muzzle Shop - connected to Lurcher Link charity they can give great advice for shapes and styles of muzzle.

Lovelylurcher if pup oversteps the mark with cat say sharp 'ah ah' and immediately reward pup with trear for looking at you and away from cat. It's good that the cat is standing up for itself. My lurcher play fights with the cat (who goads her into it) and anyone watching would probably think cat was dinner. But I put a stop to it if I think it is getting ramping up a notch.

I think what the dog's intent is, is key: like a PP said, is it a "fun to chase" thing or a "I want to kill it" thing? I have a rescue staffy/whippet Cross who was 6 months old when we got her, apparently "cat friendly" but she went into stalking/chase mode with our 2 cats pretty quickly. BUT I could see the chase instinct was there but not the kill instinct. She was the same outside, enjoyed chasing squirrels etc but wouldn't know what to do if she cornered them. It's taken 2 years of training but they all quite happily cohabit now. I never thought it would get to this stage and it was a long stressful process. I kept going because I could tell she just needed training, and that she didn't want to actually kill them. Though I'll never trust her around them fully and they're kept completely separate if we're out.

My rescue has a strong prey drive, bolts for squirrels, rabbits etc, but because she is small - poodle/terrier cross, cats can generally stand up to her.

She is now fine with my three cats (they had to stand their ground initially) but will chase any other cat she meets when out and about. We were told she was cat-friendly too

Thank you so much for all for advice -I’ll take this onboard - and sorry for slight thread hijack.

This is really tricky OP. I'm a dog walker with lots of experience of different breeds, and force free training techniques.

As you will have gathered on the thread lurchers as a breed have an inbuilt desire to chase small furry things, especially when they move quickly.

Of course some lurchers will buck the trend but these are the exception to the rule. In addition, if they are never given the chance to experience the exhilaration of a chase and coexist with small furries from a young age you might be able to train them out of it.

I am a huge advocate of using training to change behaviour, and I firmly believe a dog can be trained at any age. However I do not think that you can reliably remove a prey drive from a lurcher which has already developed one.

The best person to speak with would be a behaviouralist. Many are working remotely during lockdown and will give you excellent advice. I would be incredibly surprised if they do suggest this problem can be eliminated though.

I'm so sorry that you've been put in this position. I'm all honesty I feel the rehoming shelter should have raised this as a potential issue with any lurcher.

The problem is that it would only take one instance of your lurcher cornering your cat and it could kill it without hesitation, it's not a risk I'd be able to take. I know people say that cats are the boss, and with many dogs I get this- my cat bosses my labrador about, but your dog really does have the ability to tear your cat apart if cornered.....

No experience of your specific situation but we did have to return a dog as he was not as the rescue had described and we were unable to meet his needs. It was very sad and we were all very upset but ultimately it was down to the rescue as they had withheld/not been totally honest about certain aspects of his character.
What I would advise is that if you decide to return him, do it asap. As cruel as it sounds, the less time he has to feel at home, and the less time you have to fall in love with him, the better. We waited 2 weeks and it was too long, it was awful saying goodbye and making that decision. I sobbed my heart out. We could have spent £££ on a behaviourist with no guarantee that we would have resolved his issues at the end of it.

I know people say that cats are the boss, and with many dogs I get this- my cat bosses my labrador about, but your dog really does have the ability to tear your cat apart if cornered

Yes, I despise hearing people say this!

I have a very sweet, submissive cat and my dog is 100% the boss, not the cat.

My mums cat went for my dog unprovoked once (she had previous for swiping people and strange dogs for fun) when we were staying there.

My dog has never shown aggression towards cats before, though uncorrected she will chase them, well, when my mums cat swiped her she had every intention of taking that cat out!

I am quite sure that had she not been obstructed by me next to her and the door only being open a crack she would have severely injured, if not killed the cat.

A cat is no match for a dog.

LovelyLurcher
but can I presume she will be ok with our cat, given she’s been raised with her?
Just to back up PP: a dog that grows up from puppyhood with a cat can be taught to leave well alone. I have two prey-driven working-line dogs in this house and the cat is king.

Prey drive is a genie that it is very difficult to put back into the bottle.

Thank you so much for your advice and experience. It has really helped. He is a stunning dog but I have no doubt he is hunting to kill when he sees the cats. He is incredibly strong, powerful and fast. I have contacted an animal behaviourist and she was also very helpful over email. I am planning a video consult but she did caution that it would be a difficult process, given his heritage and his behaviour so far. I feel terribly guilty every time I look at him for even considering rehoming but then I catch sight of my two stressed out, terrified cats and feel worse. I have been in contact with the rescue centre throughout the day and their advice remains the same. Be firm, keep him on the lead ...the thing is he wouldn't hesitate to pull me behind him to get to the cats. I have flagged our worries with the kids about the cats and they both cried (but also said that they were a bit scared of him). What a mess...

It does sound as if the rescue are doing everything they can to put you off sending him back. If they are a reputable rescue they should take him back.

In my opinion OP, you should give him back before he kills one of your cats.

Based on what you’ve written, it sounds to me that he has very high prey drive indeed and sooner or later he’ll succeed in getting one of the cats.
You can’t keep him on lead forever.

Prey drive so strong that he’ll pull you over/drag you behind him?
Tunnel vision?

Come on, you must know this dog is not and never will be suitable to live with cats..

You have done nothing wrong.
The ‘rescue’ have behaved really irresponsibly, this is their mess, not yours.

I have flagged our worries with the kids about the cats and they both cried (but also said that they were a bit scared of him).

This is something that's been worrying me a bit throughout reading this thread. If you're not physically strong enough to stop him and he has already shown to not be as the shelter described him then my biggest concern wouldn't be the cats (though to be clear I certainly would be concerned about them!) it would be the toddler.

Frostedviolets, I know. I feel like I need to justify the decision to rehome him but as the evening has continued we have both come to that conclusion. Even with full training, I don't think I would ever fully trust him with the cats and I would always been on edge with him... and that is no life for him or us.

@LisaSimpsonsbff, as we have got to know him that has been my fear too. The toddler isn't allowed near him without us but I've also told the older two the same. He seems to be genuinely good with the kids and loves to play but he is way too powerful and strong for them at the moment. The whole idea of a dog that the kids could grow up doesn't apply with this dog...the absolute truth is I don't trust him. I'm sure he can sense this and for a rescue dog I am sure that won't help him settle.