Puppy survival thread! June 2020

[Juiceey]

Hello, anyone around to join me?

We've got our first puppy, a miniature poodle, yesterday. So far so good apart from the incessant humping!

He's VERY bitey, which doesn't hurt yet but no doubt will soon. He's massively attached to DW already and cries if she leaves the room. He loves DS but I think he played with him too much yesterday and overtired him, hence the humping?!

Crate training isn't easy and he cried for half an hour last night but then slept through til 5. Which is horribly early but I was ready for that!

Please someone talk me out of taking him back to the breeder. I can't cope with him any more

JudasHisCarrot I hated the puppy months and was in tears a lot of the time. My DH often asked if I wanted to rehome him but I didn't because I hoped that it would get better and it did. I now have a loverly dog that will be 4 this year but I still remember how much of a little shit he was when young although I have forgiven him.

In normal times I would recommend a 1-1 trainer to come over and give you pointers in managing the behaviour as it makes all the difference. If that possibility does open up soon with lockdown easing I would definitely recommend it.

All I can say is hang in there. The do grow up and fortunately they grow up quickly.

Ah, hope things get easier for you @JudasHisCarrot

Cooked chicken = crack cocaine in this household, it seems.

Thank you Bitey and Owl

Judas, have you tried doing enforced naps? It’s something I read about on reddit and it does seem to be working for my boy. He has maximum an hour awake then a 1-2 hour sleep in his crate to stop him getting overtired. Obviously enforcing naps goes against all the crate training they advise but I just thought of it like putting a protesting toddler down for a nap. My boy doesn’t always want to go down for a nap but he’s pretty used to it now so doesn’t protest and just lies straight down. When he does protest it’s always short lived and he’s fast asleep 5 minutes later. I think that like toddlers, puppies have a big fear of missing out so keep going when they are well past the point of tiredness and it makes them cranky and uncontrollable.

My puppy is 14 weeks and he does still turn into a bitey shark last thing before bed but enforcing nap time does seem to keep shark mode to a minimum.

Aww Judas, hang in there! We started training today and the one thing the trainer said which stood out for me was that they should sleep for 16 out of 24 hours at this age. I agree with thecapital try enforcing naps and see if that helps.

What type of pup do you have, i can't remember?

@JudasHisCarrot - I met a friend of a friend yesterday walking her much-loved spaniel. She says she would NEVER do the puppy stage ever again, but adores her dog now and it’s totally part of the family. We’ve just got to get through the hard bit I guess...

I also wonder if we we put way too much pressure on ourselves? When I was growing up we had two calm, sweet, well behaved dogs....but there was no way my parents were watching dozens of YouTube videos and spending hours training them as puppies etc. I’m probably not explaining myself well - been up since 5.30pm with the fucking puppy and she woke in the night too - but what I mean is, perhaps if we accept that things are going to be pretty annoying (we will get bitten, there will be wee in the house, we will be exhausted) for the next few months, then that could be helpful? It will get easier

You do get varying opinions about how much puppies should sleep. I’ve read opinions that they should sleep anywhere up to 18-20 hours a day. Right now my puppy is only awake 5.5 hours a day and that feels right for him judging by his moods but I think that will increase as he gets older. But not for a while - I suspect it will be the same as with humans and that they start needing more sleep again going through the teenage phase.

Thanks everyone, you've been really supportive ♥
He is just down for an enforced nap as he was charging around and extra bitey - straight to sleep so he must have been tired. Will definitely try and use that tactic, thank you.
@Rowdythree he's a golden lab

Last night was a real low point as pup managed to actually properly bite me, I mean drew blood and made me howl in agony. It was awful. He didn't mean to but was doing that mad jumping up and biting at my clothes and just latched onto my hand really hard. I have been confident with him so far, bitey as he is, but today I'm extra careful and a bit wary. My hand is so sore today I don't know what I'll do if he catches it again! I have a friend with two large dogs and she warned me about this when I said I was getting a puppy and showed me her scars. How I laughed...

Hope you have a better day today @JudasHisCarrot.

Our puppy has enforced naps too. I try and do an hour's play then a nap but don't manage that every day depending on what's going on. Our pup gets most bitey not long after waking up in the morning and again in the evening. He gets all manic and bitey and can't be distracted, that's when I know he needs a nap. Today he got up at 7am and was back in his crate at 7.50! Felt a bit mean, but he was asleep within a minute.

Ouch @muckandnettles! Sounds painful. Fingers crossed for a calm day for everyone today.

Oh I'm all for enforced naps! I know a lot of people say don't shut the crate door and don't put them in there but I've done both of these things from the start! We have 4 cats, and it just isn't feasible to leave him free ranging all the time as the cats won't get a break.

It has helped with toilet training, and he is a lot less tired. His routine goes wake, toilet, feed, play, nap. Over and over all day long! I make sure we play fairly enthusiastically so he is tired and as soon as he stops chasing the ball or toy with as much enthusiasm he goes for a nap. Always falls asleep fairly quickly. He is also crated with a kong or similar for mealtimes as I don't trust DC not to drop not safe for dogs food on the floor and was petrified about accidentally poisoning him!

Gives everyone a break from the biting too.

We had friends with a toddler over for a socially distanced cuppa in the garden over the weekend and they thought I was nuts for warning them that I couldn’t say for sure that he wouldn’t nip or get mouthy. Of course he was good as gold with the toddler (couldn’t tell whether he was chasing or herding though!) but the many many tiny cuts, scratches and bruises on my hands and up my arms show that he’s definitely a normal bitey puppy and not yet to be trusted.

DH has never had a dog before and every time the puppy goes manic he threatens to send it to Battersea! He also keeps asking to me ask about the biting in our litter mate group chat to see if his litter mates are as bad. I think he would be at the point of sending the puppy back to the breeder if I hadn’t reassured him that it’s annoying and painful but normal.

With the enforced naps, doesn't your pup create a real noise when you put them in the crate with no choice? I've tried it but he is so noisy I worry about the neighbours so let him out after a few minutes. Do you just have to grit your teeth and wait it out?

I've been quite lucky, he does sometimes whine a bit, but if we leave the room he settles within about 20 seconds. I bribe him in with food, then shut the door and feed him bits through the door for a bit (if he's quiet, not if he's whining). Also have a blanket over the crate. At night time it's completely covered because he's in a light room, but for nap time I pull it over about two thirds of the front so it still creates dark corners in the crate and stops most distractions.

To be honest, I think I've just been really lucky, and he's just not that much of a noisy dog. He whined in the crate for 8 minutes on the first night. Otherwise it's just been a short 20 seconds of whining to make clear how he feels, then he settles down. Still, I think I'm going to do some crate training with him during the day sometime to try and stop the bit of whining. Would love for him to just settle down happily straight away.

Has anyone followed any crate training videos that have worked to cut out whining completely?

If he is nowhere near tired or bursting for the toilet he shouts his head off yeah, so then he comes out and goes out for a wee and then I try again a few mins later. Most of the time he whines for a few seconds and then falls asleep. He's got a blanket, a babies tag toy which he loves, a rope chew toy and a plastic teething chew thing in the crate, as well as a cuddly dog so if he isn't ready for sleep he will sometimes play with those for a min or two before flopping down and sleeping. I leave the radio on all day too which seems to help.

He was a bit shouty the first few days while he got used to the routine but he is familiar with the pattern now so isn't bothered when he's plonked in there.

Owl you could try teaching "quiet" or "settle". You have to be a bit opportunistic but if you can catch pup at a time when he's quietly laying down with a toy say "yes! Settle" and treat. If you do it a few times over several times a day then they should start to connect laying quietly with the command "settle". We are working on this one atm. It's a bit hit and miss as dogs don't seem to be very good at applying things in diff contexts, but we are making progress. I want to be able to take him places on the train and him chill out by my feet rather than holding a "lie down" for an hour hence the "settle" training.

Lead walking went better than expected yesterday. The key seems to be a large handful of incredibly exciting food and initially stuffing a piece in with practically every step. If reduced it down by the end and apart from a bit of lead chewing he did pretty well. Will keep at it.

This is Kenny - he’s a 9 week old JR/Westie cross and we’ve had him for 6 days.

I barely dare say it, but so far so good. My last JR was a bitey whirlwind nightmare in his puppy stage - it was impossible to even walk across the room without him attacking your feet. He also wasn’t a great sleeper. Turned into the most wonderful dog but still, it was an absolute nightmare for a while.

Kenny has been great so far - sleeps on his own downstairs with very little complaint, and his mad episodes don’t usually involve much biting. I’m trying to discourage even the faintest and briefest biteyness while I can, before it gets worse. Let’s hope it works!

@muckandnettles what we've been doing is putting him in the crate (with something to chew and his soft toy) for 5-15 minutes, here and there during the day to get him used to it. He does sometimes whine a bit but we're vigilant about ignoring him and he soon gets fed up and either plays or goes to sleep. If he is whining then we make sure that he has stopped for at least a minute when we open the door - so he doesn't connect making a noise with the 'reward' of the door being opened. There is an element of teeth gritting sometimes.
I worry about the neighbours too, but I wrote them a note a few weeks ago to say we were getting a puppy - apologies in advance about any noise as we're training etc etc. They've been nice about it and they chatted to him over the fence.

@OwlInAnOakTree Sounds like we're doing pretty similar stuff with the crate, and that it's working. Think it will just take time and consistency really.

The family we got Kenny from (whose two family pets had accidentally bred just before she got the young Westie boy neutered) were feeding the pups Pedigree puppy kibble. The first couple of days back on that his poos were awful - runny, weird colours and absolutely foul smelling.
They were so bad I decided to just swap him over immediately to Lily’s Kitchen puppy kibble and it totally transformed things from the off. His poos are as beautiful as can be now, and they barely smell! He absolutely loves the food too.

@ShadowsInTheDarkness brilliant, thank you. Will start working on settle. I've got a border collie so am keen to teach him to relax. I've seen a technique that gets them to settle on a particular mat/blanket. I'm going to work on that too. Like you, I'll be traveling a bit on trains with him. And I'm a single parent with a young child, so he'll likely be coming places with us a lot!

@JudasHisCarrot yes sounds similar. He's doing really well with it to be honest. Maybe he'll give up with the little whine soon. Fingers crossed.

@GidgetGirl good that you've found the perfect food for your dog. Our bag of CSJ food is arriving today. If I don't get those firm poos you talk of, I'll try Lily's!

Thanks for the replies about the enforced naps - I might give it a go today. It seems it's all in the timing of it maybe, to start with? He will flop down anywhere in the room but if I move him to his crate he just huffs and moves out of it! He's also getting too big to pick up for much longer and my back is struggling now some days. He will go in his crate quite happily to spend time when he wants to, and I will usually find he is there when I come down in the morning, so it's not that he hates it or anything. It just seems like a battle of wills at the moment!