silver labradors

[fluffydinosaur]

hello, we've been looking at getting a chocolate labrador puppy and while so far I haven't been able to find a breeder that I am happy with we've come across some silver labs breeders - they are absolutely stunning and the breeders seem to be responsible and very nice. they will be having puppies later on in the year which is ideal for us as hopefully things will be more normal by then and it will be easier to socialise etc. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with silver labs as I haven't seen them before? they are also very expensive at 3.5k, which is a bit more than I'd been hoping to pay but would be interested if others think this is normal for the silver colour? thanks

Family member got a silver lab, paid a small fortune and the dog is more brown with silver ears...

@fluffydinosaur because it's a mutation and because it's linked to a skin disease and because any breeder trying to throw a specific colour is paying less attention to good genetics (not KC standards).
The dilute gene did not exist in Labradors until about the 1950s so although people say the Weimaraner thing has been debunked I'm not convinced- it has to have come from somewhere.

@MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig a white mark on the chest is not a disqualifying feature in the ring.

@fluffydinosaur

I have to thank you! I just clearly heard my Dads voice (he died a decade ago and I don't get that very often these days)

they are also very expensive at 3.5k

HOW MUCH???
(full on Dad voice🤣)

Not in my lifetime when there are SO many rescue dogs (including labs).

I've never heard of them either, but thanks to google I can now see how gorgeous they are! 😍

The dilute gene did not exist in Labradors until about the 1950s
How do we know that for sure?
It’s surely possible that these pups were indeed being born occasionally but being culled at birth rather than sold as something ‘unique’ and ‘trendy’?

@MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig your dog is indeed very beautiful!!

it is currently not a good time for us to get a rescue as I have very small children...but I do fully plan on adding a rescue (or two) to the family in a few years time :)

www.labrador-rescue.org.uk/dogs.html
Lovely dogs here needing homes, far better than £3.5k!

Even when undesirable colours were culled we still knew of their existence. Yellows and chocolates appeared for decades and were recorded, if not registered or even culled. The first reports of silver seem to appear from nowhere from kennels such as Christ Culo in the US.

even if the dilute gene is a mutation, I dont see that as a problem. I would be getting a family dog so I am not particularly concerned about breed standards for showing etc. what would concern me was of the gene had been shown to be linked to health conditions that would affect the dogs quality of life. so far I haven't found anything to suggest this to be the case but if anyone knows differently please tell me!

as I mentioned before, it isn't a great time for me to take on a rescue right now which is why I'm looking for a pup

Having young kids isn’t a no to rescue dogs, foster based rescues are better and can place dogs in a family home.
Just something to keep in mind.

@fluffydinosaur but I'm not on about breed standards. I favour working lines and well bred dogs are nothing like the show standard. But I definitely would not want to buy from a breeder who encouraged a mutation - especially as if they are breeding for colour, consideration f oh r health tends to go out the window.

@MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig your beautiful boy looks a lot like my girl.
Both my male & female are from working lines, although the male conforms more closely to standard. But any time I have watched Crufts the labs who are placed are heavier and more cumbersome than my vet would allow 😁
They are all beautiful, but give me a sporty athletic lab any day

even if the dilute gene is a mutation, I dont see that as a problem.

Recessive genes are often recessive for a reason - normally because they're weaker. So by continually breeding silver "labs" (which they'll need to do in order to guarantee a silver litter) they'll be breeding from a small gene pool of dogs with recessive, weak genes.

It's not really something to encourage. Why not just go for a regular lab? It'll be cheaper and probably healthier. Or if you like the silver/grey colour, why not a purebred pointer or a Weimaraner?

These forced colours do most commonly lead to health issues, I work in rescue, mainly bull breeds(and own them) there’s been a huge trend for blue staffies, frenchies, bulldog etc, the majority have health issues mainly with allergies and skin issues and many have behavioural issues, so called breeders in their determination to get a colour or dilute colour throw morals out the window and commonly inter breed mother/son etc, 2 blues can have a litter with no blue which means many pups are rejected/killed.
Please do not buy based on a colour, it only encourages unscrupulous breeders.

A purebred pointer won't be silver - the only pointing breeds that come in that colour are Weims and Slovakians.

A lot of gundogs carry bb - the recessive that gives what is known as liver or chocolate. It doesn't cause any health issues: all is does is modify KK (black, carried homozygously by many gundog breeds - with the odd exception).

#dognerd. Possibly I need to get out more.

@FairfaxAikman oh really? I was told that years ago, to be fair. I don’t know the first thing about showing though so it doesn’t matter.

I don't show but my friend does. I know it's not a mismark as long as it's small.
It's considered a throwback to the ancestor breed, the St Johns Water Dog.

[quote Dreamersandwishers]@MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig your beautiful boy looks a lot like my girl.
Both my male & female are from working lines, although the male conforms more closely to standard. But any time I have watched Crufts the labs who are placed are heavier and more cumbersome than my vet would allow 😁
They are all beautiful, but give me a sporty athletic lab any day[/quote]
Agree with the above. The working lines, particularly show trial labs, are “game finding athletes”, which was the phrase used when we first began making enquiries.

This isn’t the same as American bred labs, as both mine are KC registered and come from well regarded lines.
They do sound similar in appearance, if not in genes, however.

My pure bred older black lab, is frankly going a bit mahogany looking, especially in the summer!
She does have genes for dark yellow (red), as her sire was Copper Birch Paddy and we had two red labs in her litter.

Another thing to consider - dilute coloured dogs (not just silver Labs, but blue French bulldogs and Staffordshire Bull Terriers for example) can often suffer from a condition called Colour Dilution Alopecia which causes hair loss and dry, itchy skin which as you can imagine is incredibly uncomfortable and can lead to secondary skin infections as well. As it's a genetically acquired condition, it can't be cured.

thanks everyone for your comments. I think given the cost and possibility of health issues that some of you have mentioned, we will stick to getting a standard colour lab, probably chocolate for now :)

Do contact the breed club or look into lab rescue. And good luck!

Recessive genes are often recessive for a reason - normally because they're weaker. So by continually breeding silver "labs" (which they'll need to do in order to guarantee a silver litter) they'll be breeding from a small gene pool of dogs with recessive, weak genes.

Genuine question. What's a weak gene and why is it bad (other than the word 'weak' sounding like a bad thing)?

@SharkasticRhymes

Recessive genes are often recessive for a reason - normally because they're weaker. So by continually breeding silver "labs" (which they'll need to do in order to guarantee a silver litter) they'll be breeding from a small gene pool of dogs with recessive, weak genes.

Genuine question. What's a weak gene and why is it bad (other than the word 'weak' sounding like a bad thing)?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merle_(dog_coat)

This explains it pretty well.

Basically, certain coat colours (merle and blue off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are others) are linked with certain health conditions. I'll use merle as the example here.

So merle dogs are quite likely to be deaf and to have eyesight problems. As a one-off this might not be a problem. But if you purposefully breed two merle dogs in order to get a cute litter of merle pups, there's an increased likelihood that those puppies will have health problems. Continue the breeding down the line (with weak pups being bred together to guarantee coat colour) and the likelihood and severity of health problems is just going to get worse.

It's the same with the increasing popularity of "blue" staffs or frenchies. Yes, they're super cute and the coat colour is lovely, but they're rare (without human intervention) for a reason. "Blue" dogs often have skin problems, allergies and hair loss as a result of their colour.

Basically, breeding dogs to have rare coloured coats generally means you're breeding dogs with health issues. Sometimes, these dogs will just appear as a freak mutation and it can't be helped, but by purposefully breeding dogs to have rare coats isn't really a good idea long-term.

Oh, and the important point - the merle gene is considered biologically weaker than say, a black gene, as merle dogs have an increased risk of problems, whereas black ones don't.

Ah I see - you use the term weak and I would use frequently linked with health disorders. I thought there was something about gene strength in itself that I wasn't getting. Ta.