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lovelyjubbly12 · 19/05/2020 19:51
Does anyone have any advice on how to discipline my pup?
She's a 14 weeks old and we are trying to train her etc. Whenever she's naughty I tell her off and say "naughty girl no" but she literally doesn't give a shit. I'll turn back and with that she's back to doing what she was doing 😅
What do people do to discipline their dogs? Our first dog so we aren't sure what we are meant to do... we've been consistently telling her off over and over when she does naughty things but she literally doesn't care 🤷🏼♀️
3teens2cats · 19/05/2020 19:56
You focus on rewarding the positive and reinforcing with treats etc when she does what you want. No point telling her off she won't understand. Focus on building a good bond so she wants to please you, telling her off won't help that.
ChandlerIsTheBestFriend · 19/05/2020 19:59
I tell her off and say "naughty girl no" but she literally doesn't give a shit.
You’ll need to increase her English lessons then.
Dogs (and 14 week old pups!) don’t understand what “no” or “naughty girl” means. They don’t have a concept of “naughty” to them there are just things that feel good and things that feel bad. Example: if she is chewing something it’s because it feels good. She isn’t doing it to be naughty. If you don’t want her to chew the thing you need to put it where she can’t reach it. Prevent the problem rather than try and get a 14 week old pup to instantly know that you don’t want her to do it.
What sorts of things is she doing that you want to stop her doing?
BiteyShark · 19/05/2020 20:02
A dog won't understand 'naughty girl no'.
You can sometimes stop them with an interrupter like 'no' or 'ah ha' but then you need to follow up with a distraction or a behaviour that you want.
I think you would benefit from a 1-1 trainer (maybe some will do remote training for now until people can meet in person) that can show you how to reward wanted behaviour and discourage unwanted ones.
ChandlerIsTheBestFriend · 19/05/2020 20:07
If you want to stop a behaviour then teach a command rather than just saying “no”. “No” doesn’t have a meaning to dogs other than it being a sound they hear when they’re doing things that feel nice.
So you could teach “down” which would mean every time the dog was doing something you wanted to stop you say “down” and she lies down, you can then praise her and call her over to you and give her something else to do. You can also create a spot for her in the house with a bed, crate (only if you do proper crate training) or mat and give it a name, like “mat” and train her to go on command so that if she is chewing the sofa let you can say “go to your mat” and she will go there.
fivedogstofeed · 19/05/2020 20:09
She's not being naughty, she's being a puppy and she doesn't speak English. :)
She has no idea what you want her to do unless you teach her.
If she's doing something you don't want her to do then you need to offer an alternative.
When she behaves in way you like, you praise her.
Opoly54 · 19/05/2020 20:29
I’d start with teaching her a ‘kissy kissy’ noise. It worked well with our cheeky pup. They instinctively pay attention if you make a kissing sound, treat her as soon as she’s stopped whatever it was she was doing and is looking at you. So you’re praising her stopping rather than telling off the bad behaviour.
jinxpixie · 19/05/2020 20:41
98% of dog training is control and management and preventing the behaviour you dont want.
So if your puppy chews your shoes - dont leave your shoes where the puppy can get them but give the puppy a toy to chew.
If you puppy steals food then put all food away.
What behaviour is your puppy doing that is "naughty"?
lovelyjubbly12 · 19/05/2020 20:57
Thank you everyone your posts are really helpful.
We are giving treats and tummy rubs etc with good behaviour. We've tried ignoring bad behaviour and moving things she can't have etc and it's worked for the most parts but it's things like in the garden. I'm not sure if it's a puppy thing (I'm kinda hoping it is) but our garden is completely fenced off so she's safe out there. But I don't want to leave her alone as she digs up the garden or tears up patches of grass with her teeth or zooms through the bushes 😅 and if I try and stop her she thinks it's a game and zooms around with the grass or what not in her mouth. So I've tried ignoring it but then she sits and eats stones!!! I just don't want her to have a bad belly or something. I wanna do what's right by her and help teach her. I know she's only doing it because she's still a baby but I didn't know if there was anything I can do as her human mum to help guide her 🤷🏼♀️
jinxpixie · 19/05/2020 21:24
Not sure if this will work in your situation you could try fencing off a safe area in the garden, no stones and bushes to worry about.
Have the puppy on a long line in the garden so you can divert when they get the zoomies
Do not leave unsupervised in the garden
I would give her an area where she can dig and if she digs in the wrong place move her to the correct area. I would do this by being exciting and digging in the correct area myself!
Do not chase her through the bushes that is the best game ever to her -get a tuggy toy and run away from her making happy squealy noises (your neighbours will love you!) she will then chase you and play with you.
If she does pick things up you dont want her to have put a great treat chicken for example and she should eat that and drop the object
frostedviolets · 19/05/2020 22:39
I don't agree with ignoring bad behaviour personally.
Well, attention seeking behaviour I would ignore but not things like food stealing, digging, chewing bad stuff etc
Literally no social animal, apart from some humans, interact in that way.
If a behaviour equals a reward, it’ll be repeated again.
So if we are talking about things like chewing a forbidden item or digging up the flowerbed, ignoring will make no difference whatsoever because it’s rewarding to the dog.
I interrupt bad behaviour in my dog with a stern ‘ah’ or ‘no’, if there’s an alternative behaviour she should have been doing, eg she was chewing the table I would give her a chew toy after the ‘ah/no’.
If the bad behaviour happens again I silently put dog in isolation in another room on doggy time out.
I have never allowed refusal of known commands either.
Eg, if the dog definitely knows and understands the command ‘sit’ and I ask it and it doesn’t sit I would then force its arse down into a sit and reward with praise but no treats.
No constant repeating ‘sit, sit, sit, sit’
YgritteSnow · 19/05/2020 22:47
I agree with you @frostedviolets. Only on MN do I see advice that you must never say no strenuously and only distract with treats. I've raised three puppies over the years and they've all been well trained, well adjusted dogs with excellent recall and behaviours. There is a place for a firm "NO!" and very clear expectations. I think some of the advice given on here could result in extended unwanted behaviours and dreadful stress for owners.
ChasingTheSunshineAlways · 19/05/2020 23:54
Dogs don't understand "no".
This blog is great to explain why they don't understand No and why No doesn't work.
BertieBotts · 19/05/2020 23:57
She is not a toddler, she is a dog :) sounds like you're trying human behaviour management in her which won't be appropriate. I really like the Zak George videos on YouTube, he has a whole series about puppies and what to teach them in what order.
frostedviolets · 20/05/2020 00:28
Dogs don't understand "no"
Firstly they understand tone and body language.
A ‘no’ spoken in a firm tone and likely with accompanying annoyed body language even if not done intentionally, they will understand as displeasure imo
And secondly, how do you know they don’t understand exactly...?
There have been studies proving that dogs are very capable of learning simple numbers, letters, what different objects are, there was a woman, too tired right now to find the link but will tomorrow, who proved dogs could be taught the meanings behind words and use them to communicate with people.
She used a board if I remember rightly with buttons that corresponded to different emotions and words.
frostedviolets · 20/05/2020 00:31
Was easier to find than I thought it would be!
StillMedusa · 20/05/2020 00:32
Join the FB 'Dog training advice and Support' group... and then read the units.
Everything you need is there..brilliant, kind, force free training help.
BiteyShark · 20/05/2020 05:41
The garden behaviour is normal puppy behaviour. Mine used to try and dig and eat stones as it was soooooo exciting. I had to supervise at all times and any bad behaviour that I could not distract ended up with puppy bought back inside.
We fenced off a place that has less things to destroy which helped. But what really made a difference was age. He simply grew out of it and I think because we stopped the digging/stone eating it never became a habit.
Booboostwo · 20/05/2020 05:53
There are three things you can do about undesirable behavior:
- remove the dog from the situation, e.g. a dog that chases sheep is rehome to a home in the city.
- train an incompatible behavior, e.g. teach a dog who chases sheep to lie down when he sees one.
- distract, e.g. give a dog a chew as soon as he sees a sheep.
For the garden behavior you firstly need to accept that you have a puppy and the energy has to go somewhere. I would suggest you put up with the running, unless you can take her for a walk every time she needs to run. When she digs call her to you and work on some sits, downs, etc. when she puts stones in her mouth, offer her a treat in exchange, teach her a leave it command, and remove as many stones as you can from the garden. If she swallows stones it could result in a very expensive bill and could be dangerous for her.
I appreciate it is tough having a puppy during lockdown but can you access online resources on training? There is no point talking to a puppy, even voice commands come after the behavior, and don’t think it terms for discipline. You want to create conditions that lead to desirable behavior in the first place.
3teens2cats · 20/05/2020 07:51
There is a difference between a verbal interruption (we use ah ah) and telling a dog off. The verbal interruption is to get their attention so you can redirect and then praise. Telling a dog off is pointless because they can't understand beyond simple commands. Plus, like small children, if you don't redirect them to what they can do they will never learn. Body language is so important too. We use a hand signal to accompany any command to reinforce it. Over time I know he knows the words and phrases we have taught him but it took lots of hard work and patience.
lovelyjubbly12 · 20/05/2020 08:09
Ah okay it's reassuring to know it's normal pup behaviour.
She isn't allowed out for walks yet she's just had her second injections and we've got the two week wait. She's got built up energy poor thing and I think it'll be better for her when she can at least get out and explore anywhere other than the garden.
The digging up the grass I can deal with. It's typical doggy behaviour and I do take it out her mouth and say no. I use the "ah" noise when she's doing it so she does tend to stop.
I used to take her out on her extendable lead when she first got here. To get her used to her lead and also so I could control slightly more. But I wanted to start training her to go out without it, but I think maybe it's too early and she's too young. I always always supervise her outside.
I have no idea why she has a thing for stones. I wish she didn't. I have to watch her like a hawk.
She's a typical stubborn Frenchie bless her. She's absolutely gorgeous and I adore her. It's just gonna a bit of time that's all. I was just wondering if anyone else did anything else to discipline.
I do "time out" too because sometimes when she's zooming it's because she's over tired and needs a nap. But she has two beds, and I never use her crate bed as punishment because I've read that has to remain her safe cosy den.
They're sooooo worth it but it's bloody hard work isn't it!! Thank you everyone for your advice.
GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 20/05/2020 08:15
If a dog can understand 'leave it' and 'go back' once it has been taught, it can understand 'no' as well. Repeated cycles of 'no!' and removing the puppy from the situation will sink in.
They also, with experience, understand tone of voice and facial expression. If they didn't, puppy trainers urging you to 'use your happy voice' would get nowhere. The cross 'ah-ha' is the opposite of praise - and nobody argues that dogs don't understand praise.
frosted I love that dog with the speech buttons. I first saw it a while ago and had forgotten it so thanks for the reminder. If had the time, patience and tech know-how I'd try it myself. But then, I'd have the leetle beetch bashing out 'Walk! Now!' on a loop.
It all takes a lot of time and practice. We put down spare roof tiles over exposed soil to discourage digging. We've worked endlessly on 'leave it' and all the rest, and it's been 100% worth it.
jinxpixie · 20/05/2020 08:46
I never bother with leave it command. I just ask the dog to dos something different, call them back to me, lie down etc.
So if they are about to eat something I dont want them to just recall back tome. If they are about to chase a deer then I would ask for a down
Perfidy · 20/05/2020 11:41
The Happy Puppy Book is very readable and easy as it easy peasy puppy squeezy.
Diverting, training to do other things, treats, making sure they aren't bored - mentally exercised (sniffing, games, training, treats in a box in newspaper, snuffle mats) as well if not more than physically.
We haven't been able to train ours to settle - but having lots of safe things for her to chew has helped.
Sometimes it will attention seeking!
The Facebook group linked to above is really good on positive training. Made me think about things differently and more from the dog point of view.
EnidSugden · 20/05/2020 11:44
You seem very focussed on punishment rather than teaching her what you want her to do 😕
Booboostwo · 20/05/2020 11:59
While I understand not wanting to risk an unvaccinated dog outside, socialization is absolutely crucial and with a small breed there is no reason why you cannot carry her and pop her down in safe places. The socialization window closes at 14 weeks so I would not wait another 2!
Also you need her free not on a lead, so that you can click and treat everytime she comes near you, this is the start of the recall., one of the most important things to teach a dog.
Try to see if you can get any one to one training or online training for you to learn some techniques as the lockdown eases.
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