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Finding the perfect dog breeders
23

hopeforlucky3 · 15/05/2020 20:21

Hi just that really, after being stung with my current pup and bought from a possible puppy farm (not looking for another dog btw just out of curiosity).

So if gumtree and Pets for homes are a no go where does the average family go to find good, ethical breeders?

Champdogs? And also breed specific, but are these only through social media?

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Ginswin · 15/05/2020 20:26

A lot of really good breeders don't even advertise. I breed and show dogs but only ever breed when we want a puppy for ourselves to show and we put a lot of thiught

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HappyHammy · 15/05/2020 20:29

Champdogs or through The Kennel Club. What breed are you looking for.

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Ginswin · 15/05/2020 20:34

Sorry tech fail there.....

Put a lot of thought into it, including of course all necessary health testing for the parents and only ever breed from dogs that have sound temperaments. We have children and any puppies we have (max 1 litter a year if that) are always reared in the home within the hustle and bustle of family life.

If you want a purebred it is easier than a 'designer breed' because if you make the effort, you can't contact the breed clubs for advice, ask when they hold their club shows and visit shows and try to speak to exhibitors..the longer you do this and the more you do, the more of an idea you will get about recommendations....repeated names of breeders considered the 'ones' to go for. Also be prepared to wait possibly a year after initial contact with your breeder, keep in touch with them and take opportunities to see their dogs both at their home and perhaps at shows..there are likely to be championship shows near you.

If it's a designer breed I,e. Cockerpoo type you want, it's minefield. I wouldn't know where to start because even known puppy farmers can get licenses. There are breeders I know that are licensed I wouldn't touch with a barge pole! Certainly not buy a puppy from!

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Ginswin · 15/05/2020 20:35

can contact breed clubs not can't 🙄 sorry, should have read through my post before posting!

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Sillyscrabblegames · 15/05/2020 20:37

The good breeders very rarely advertise and will have long waiting lists full of people who are back for their second dog! A good way to find these experienced breeders is to get involved with the breed you are interested in. Visit shows, agility, working trials, fun days, breed walks... You will get to know which dogs are great and good as pets and who is recommended

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CoffeeBeansGalore · 15/05/2020 20:51

If you go onto the UK Kennel Club website, breeders list when they have a litter. Then you can usually find them on Champdogs with more details.
Only KC Registered breeders can advertise through Champdogs. They list the parents details. You can see how many litters they have bred from any dam. There are usually photos. They normally list the health checks & results of both parents.
The puppy should be vet checked before leaving the breeder. Our breeders microchipped all the pups & we changed the ownership details once pup was home. The breeders details stayed on the record in case for whatever reason the new owners could not be contacted in the instance of the dog being lost/stolen etc.
The decent ones will want to quiz you to make sure their puppies are going to loving forever homes. They will offer a lifetime of support & should unforeseen circumstances happen, they will have the dog back.
Decent breeders will be happy to answer any questions about their dogs, and about the breed in general. They will want you to ask questions.

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hopeforlucky3 · 15/05/2020 21:19

@HappyHammy I'm not looking for a dog, I've got enough with the ones I've got . I was just curious with the various threads regarding puppy farming, how to spot a reputable breeder as apposed to a backyard breeder. Also people's opinions on what is classed as a good breeder compared to a bad one varies on this forum.

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tabulahrasa · 15/05/2020 21:27

Meeting people at events is best... then breed clubs.

Champdogs and the KC website are better than other websites, because you can check their health test results and things like if they’re inbred online too...

What you’re having to do is basically assume that most breeders are doing something less than ideal and that you’re weeding out most of them until you manage to find one.

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moobar · 15/05/2020 21:33

It's difficult OP.

I am quite rural and here it was word of mouth. Saying that, I have become close friends with her and we have done two litters together, I have rehomed an ex show dog of hers and she has helped me with a litter from my own.

One point someone said on your other thread was that a good breeder would never have two litters at the same time or close together. I would disagree with that. She spends over half the year travelling to shows, including abroad and lecturing at breed events. She has fifteen dogs of her own. What you often find with bitches is that they come in together, both mine are in season now.

So in her case she would take two litters close, if the dogs were ready, rather than take one when she was not going to be there.

She has a list as long as my arm of people looking for puppies. She gets them very carefully, almost as intense as the research people suggest you do when buying a puppy. If she did not know them. References, home check etc.

It still falls down. She has a dog back with her now, perfect home. The lady lost her husband and had a breakdown, she could not cope. Dog goes back to her no questions.

She would be able to tell you where every single puppy she has ever had is, and keeps in touch with them all. Maybe not regularly but from time to time.

She is exceptional in her knowledge and kindness towards dogs. I asked many people when I was looking and her name came up time and time again. She has never advertised a litter, just takes details if you call and when something comes up she will contact you.

Again with being rural a lot of farmers and gamekeepers breed good lines of puppies from labs, to spaniels and collies. Again, rarely advertised and a lot of word of mouth.

There's been a lot of fear recently about advertising puppies following an increase in thefts. There was a case in east Lothian recently where the puppies were taken but thankfully found.

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HappyHammy · 15/05/2020 21:33

Hopefully Lucys Law will put an end to farms, selling animals in pet shops and places like Gumtree.

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GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 15/05/2020 21:51

Question 1: Do you actually want perfect, or do you want decent? There is a massive grey area between the A* breeders who health test, carefully select the stud with great knowledge of the lines of both sire and dam, and grill potential owners to within an inch of their lives, and puppy farmers. That grey area encompasses thoughtful breeders of their family pet who ensure they use at least a health-tested stud and aim for a low COI, gamekeepers breeding fit-for-function but not hip-scored dogs (who might be crosses), pet-owners who slap any two dogs together with zero knowledge but at least raise the puppies around family life and noise with love and care, and pet owners who who are really only doing it for the £££.

Champdogs is a reasonable place to start. Plenty of very good litters are advertised on there: I've just had a look at a breed I know a bit about and there is a litter up with a stud who is an outstanding dog and has some wonderful lines behind him. There are plenty of other good litters advertised as well.

There have been a lot of threads on here about how to define a good breeder and how to find one. Everyone's definition varies slightly, and much depends on what sort of dog you want at the end of it. If you want a temperamentally sound family pet, you don't necessarily want the offspring of Crufts winners, and you definitely don't want a cocker with FTCh parents.

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GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 15/05/2020 21:57

There's been a lot of fear recently about advertising puppies following an increase in thefts.
Yep. If I were to get a good quality working puppy, I would not advertise its provenance all over FB.

Hopefully Lucys Law will put an end to farms, selling animals in pet shops and places like Gumtree.
Sadly, not a chance. A puppy farm just has to get a licence by ticking the right boxes. Local councils don't have the resources to nail this issue down, and stopping illegal imports from Europe and the ROI where the dogs are kept in shocking conditions is almost impossible.

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ducksback · 16/05/2020 09:56

For a pedigree, breed clubs are a very good/the best way to go. Usually a group of likeminded people interested in promoting the good breeding and welfare of their breed. They also will know of any dogs which need to be rehomed. They will also appreciate a person who is going about getting a pup in the right way.

They will know of any future litters and will put you in touch with the breeder. And then you will be grilled to within an inch of your life - which is how it should be!

As for the popular cross breeds - I am coming around to thinking that there is just no way of finding reputable breeders. It is fraught with difficulty. There are so many terrible 'breeders' as well as large licensed operations which claim to be great but which are also terrible. And people will just not WAIT which is what you have to do if you want a well bred puppy.

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jinxpixie · 16/05/2020 17:36

MN definition of a good breeder may not be your definition of a good breeder. Work out what you think a "good breeder" is.

My view will be different to others. I insist on health tests, the relationship between bitch and dog, number of litters, breeders experience etc.

However for me how they bring up the puppies in the first 8 weeks is crucial . I would only be interested in breeders who understand puppy development and would be experienced in ENS.

How they will socialise the puppies in the first 8 weeks, introduction to crates, and time alone and car travel are vital in those early weeks. Breeders who are use classical conditioning training from birth are also important to me.

Always word of mouth for me. If it were a first dog I would want to talk to the breeders and talk to owners of dogs previously breed by them. Ask about health, temperament etc on previous litters.

However you have to do a lot of research yourself on the breed . To understand health tests and results, and know what questions to ask.

Kennel club breeders can be some of the worst to be honest.

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hopeforlucky3 · 17/05/2020 09:59

Thanks all for your input. I have another question after reading another thread. In regards to frenchies someone said that their breeder was "breeding back" so that they didn't have such a flat face. My question is how do they achieve this without cross breeding and then how would that work with future generations being KC registered?

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GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 17/05/2020 15:39

You breed the dogs with the longer muzzles - there are breeders who are doing this. There is discussion amongst some breeders about outcrossing because of other issues Frenchies are prone to, iirc.

But outcrossing and the KC... Good luck with that, guys.

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hopeforlucky3 · 17/05/2020 17:02

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman thanks for clearing that up for me Smile

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WhySeaEmm · 19/05/2020 17:59

I'm really happy with my breeder. I found her on pets4homes. She has a fully licensed 5* business (I checked) and has a Facebook page with a huge following. She grilled the heck out of me, as I did her. She posts videos all the time with the pups with mum and we've been whatsapping non stop, she's been great with all my incessant questioning. So I don't think pets4homes is all bad, you just have to sift through.

Also when we were looking for a mini poodle I contacted loads of breeders from KC club. Various ones emailed me back with links to pets4home adverts, as they were selling on there. So it's not always all waiting lists etc.

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potentialdogowner · 20/05/2020 22:59

@whyseaemm would you please mind sharing your breeder's details or Facebook page? Been looking for a miniature poodle breeder but my mind is going in circle about trying to avoid puppy farmers, making sure the breeder know their stuff etc. Any help would be great!

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WhySeaEmm · 20/05/2020 23:06

I’ve PMed you :)

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DahliaDay · 20/05/2020 23:10

We got our pup from pets4homes too

We wanted a family dog boy a champion or a dog to show are be stuffy about. His parents are Kc registered but we aren’t bothering with our pups registration

We are just getting on with some straightforward training, fun and loving him. I’m still in touch with the man we got him from and know where all the siblings went. Not that it matters massively but I like to tell him about his family sometimes (yes yes I know he doesn’t understand!! It’s just me being soppy with him)

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DahliaDay · 20/05/2020 23:11

*not a champion

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TARSCOUT · 20/05/2020 23:17

Current dogs are the only ones we have ever paid for and both came from Gumtree. One is a bit on the small side for her breed but the other is perfect. All others came from dog pound.

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