Is lockdown the right time to get a puppy?

[Annaotherginplease]

So, I think I have just agreed to take my very first puppy (currently only 3wks old) and am so excited I can hardly contain myself. She is a border collie. However, already people are p*ing on my bonfire and telling me how much work it will be and how much I will regret it and don't get a collie. I am prepared for hard work but I also think it will be so great. We're a camping family (under normal circumstances) and I have visions of sharing our adventures with our 4 legged friend, I don't have all of the answers about training and don't know how the introduction with a fairly shy cat will go, but I am sure these things can be worked through... although I can't help but worry a little.
OH is going along with it and onboard, although wouldn't choose to get a dog himself. He is a pessimist (he says realist) and given the current Covid situation doesn't think this is a great time to get a dog. I however feel it could be something wonderful to distract us from the reality of what's going on in the world. My two boys (8 and 5) are struggling without school and friends around. My youngest is finding it the hardest... he is missing his reception year. It's a big change for him. They are spending more and more time addicted to computer games and losing the ability to play. I can see the puppy being great for them.
I see my OH's point a little...puppy socialisation will be harder, as will getting injections which may ultimately delay being able to take her outside. I don't know whether I will need to cancel my summer cottage holiday in Cornwall 2 months after getting her? Will that be cancelled anyway? There are uncertainties, but I am confident that I will adore this puppy and will be able to offer a happy, active and loving home... but I do wonder whether I am a bit puppy blind.
This is a subject that we have revisited as a family many times in the past, so it's not come out of the blue. When life returns to normal, my husband and I work from home on alternate days so there will be no need to leave her at home all day (hoping we still have jobs at the end of all of this). We (usually) live very busy active lives, but I see no reason why a dog cannot be part of that. Do I need a reality check do you think?

I do not recommend running/ jogging with a pup until they are absolutely 100% finish growing or growth plates and joints can be damaged. Collie wouldnt be my 1st choice, i remember walking with my son and a lady on the other side of the road was trying to push her buggy and walk the collie and it FLEW at a bus's wheels, she let go of the lead and my heart dropped to my stomach, luckily it was fine 🙉

I do not recommend running/ jogging with a pup until they are absolutely 100% finish growing or growth plates and joints can be damaged
Agreed.

Collie wouldnt be my 1st choice, i remember walking with my son and a lady on the other side of the road was trying to push her buggy and walk the collie and it FLEW at a bus's wheels
Oh yes, over a year before I could walk my collie safely around cars.
She was the same, she would give the cars ‘the eye’, do the whole crouch run, start/stop, lie downs, the works!
Passers by used to laugh and I can imagine it must have looked hilarious but it was a nightmare handling her and extremely dangerous obviously!
She’s getting on a bit now and I still avoid walking her near busy roads incase she reverts.

I think now is as good a time as any. One trainer whose on-line stuff I have come across - I forget which one, I listen to loads of dog stuff - says that socialisation is really about exposure. It's not about running up to greet people, it's about seeing pushchairs and wheelchairs and men in funny hats and kids playing football and women in specs - just getting the dog used to all the different sorts of human. And it's not about frolicking about around unknown dogs, either, it's about seeing lots of them, never being harmed by them, learning to stay near to you unless you allow some interaction. In other words, seeing chihuahuas and Labs and spaniels and terriers and whatever other dogs your area can provide, to get used to every sort of canine.

You can also think of this as a time to build resilience, by getting your puppy used to all sorts of noises (screeching children, crashing pans, the washing machine, pressure washing the patio, chugging lorries, trains, whatever) by starting the noises off fairly quietly and then gradually ramping them up. Building resilience also includes teaching the pup to be left alone for short and not distressing spells and then lengthening them, getting it used to all sorts of surfaces and locations - sand, wooden footbridges, whatever you are likely to encounter.

About the only thing you can't provide at the moment is controlled interaction with known 'safe' adult dogs, and crowds. But we have no idea where we will be five weeks time when you bring your puppy home, or five weeks after that.

Cats: dunno about collies (never owned or lived with one) but I have two high-drive, prey-driven, field-bred dogs in the house and the cat is in charge.

Your OH: He is a pessimist (he says realist) I've got one of those. He is usually putty in the dogs' paws. It is actually pathetic.

Higher drive collies especially have a very predatory stance about them and other dogs don’t like it.
This is very true. My older dog was stalked and given eye by a collie and after brassing it out for a bit (about 5 seconds), he ran off crying into the bushes...

Good luck with it, OP. Check out the breeder to make sure you're happy, teach your DC to do right by the dog, and have years of great companionship.

Also bare in mind, vets are not doing injections for puppies atm

We got our cockapoo puppy 2 weeks ago during lockdown as I felt it was the best time (being home so much!!) however even post lockdown I only work part time and pup will be able to go to my mums during the day.

Partner and I both grew up with dogs although he wasn't completely keen on us getting a pup yet so I very much knew a lot of the hard work would be down to me.... and it definitely has been hard, but also enjoyable!! And after 2 weeks nearly all toileting is done outside and he sleeps through 10.30-6.30 :) however this was only achieved through crate training from day 1..

I think lockdown has been useful as we are constantly home to pop him in the crate for naps and take him outside regularly to toilet.

A number of vets are still doing immunisations as they're deemed as important - call around and see if someone local to you will vaccinate. The breeder wasn't able to get him vaccinated but 2 days after collecting him he had his first vaccination.

The hardest part I have found is managing the pup along with my 2 and 4 year old... he's very nippy and gets excited and jumps up at them, also their toys! I've set up an area for them to play that he's restricted getting to as small toys are the best looking snack to a young pup!
The nipping and jumping we are trying to train him to stop and hopefully this is something that will decrease with age.

I don't know too much about the collie breed but I would definitely think long and hard... all pups are hard work.. if your husband wants to be able to run with him it will be some time before he gets to do so and maybe if you'll be doing more of the work he could consider a slightly easier to manage breed? However I understand you're already feeling committed.. keep talking it through together and good luck with whichever decision you make 😊

Now is not the best time and a collie is not the easiest breed for a novice owner, so you are basically stacking the odds against you.

Specific problems with the lockdown include:

• access to vets for vaccinations
• socialization. This absolutely crucial for the future wellbeing of the puppy. The first 14 weeks of life are essential for socialization but the lockdown imposes a lot of restrictions. Of course you can carry the puppy which makes the best of a bad situation, but puppies need to run around, explore, meet people, meet dogs, etc. The number of people/animals/things that the puppy is supposed to see during those first few weeks is large and demanding under normal circumstances.
• puppy classes will be closed. Training classes will at best take place online. Again this is making the best of a difficult situation, but as a novice dog owner you will be at quite a disadvantage without direct help.

Collies are amazing dogs. Extremely intelligent and extremely loyal. As a result they tend to bond strongly with one person, they need a lot of company and a lot of stimulation. Some need a lot of physical exercise and all need a lot of mental stimulation. Most collies I know have some kind of job. Many work with sheep for fun, or do agility, or flyball, or obedience. You will need to spend a lot of time with the dog which may not be compatible with young children.

Most young children find puppies very annoying. They bite, jump up, scratch, eat the toys and demand attention. Collies are also much more likely to try to herd young children and give little nips to the back of the feet, just like they would do with sheep. None of this is dangerous but it can be extremely annoying and requires quite a bit of patience and time to train out.

Thanks for your honest input everyone. I can't deny that I haven't shed a little tear... but I think it has given me some perspective. I realise that I am desperately craving a positive focus right now and that this has been channelled into getting a puppy. I have always known that it would be hard work and I see our family with a dog at some point in the future. I am coming to realise that perhaps it isn't the miracle cure I have been looking for right now. It saddens me to think that what could have been my puppy will go to some other loving family, perhaps it won't be that lucky? I feel deeply saddened that I must return to the monotony of everyday life in lockdown once more without this to plan for and focus on...Perhaps this is a thread for another time and place? Perhaps not?.. Sending well wishes to others who are struggling in whatever way with this current situation and hoping your furry friends provide some light relief in these pretty gloomy times.

This isn't the end - see it as the beginning. Use lock down time to research breeds, find breeders or rescue centres. Get a plan in place for the time to get the right dog for your family.

Look at training books get ahead for when you do get your new family dog.

This too will pass.

We are getting a puppy soon, it is from a reputable breeder and we have had 3 of the same breed before. We will not be able to take her out for at least 2 weeks after she arrives, so we will spend time in the garden doing some gentle training. Husband does not work so he will be here whilst I am out

Collies are also much more likely to try to herd young children and give little nips to the back of the feet, just like they would do with sheep. None of this is dangerous but it can be extremely annoying and requires quite a bit of patience and time to train out

Not all collies nip, infact, collies herd primarily by ‘eye’ and movement and don’t tend to nip unless truly necessary.

The ‘ankle nippers’ tend to be the droving breeds of dogs, heelers and corgis for example.

Mine has never been a nipper but she is a worker through and through and 100% has the ability to be a working sheepdog.

The instinct usually shows itself by 8 weeks, if not before.

And herding behaviour towards children absolutely is dangerous.

It doesn’t matter whether it takes the form of nipping, nudging, cutting in front, chasing, it IS dangerous and it must not be tolerated. Ever.

Border collies are usually fairly high up whenever the breed statistics of which breeds were responsible for bites come out.

They often dislike rowdy child behaviour like running, jumping, squealing etc and
If they haven’t been taught that firm consequence follows herding behaviour directed to children they will often try to take control whenever they perceive children to be misbehaving by staring them down, stalking or cutting in front.

Most children will be frightened by such behaviour and try to get away which will lead to the collie escalating.

Sooner or later you will get nips or a proper grip/bite.

Herding behaviour is not to be tolerated towards people.

frostedviolets when I said "much more likely" I didn't mean 'all'. Much more likely means that there is a higher probability rather than a certainty so of course there are collies that do not herd as there are JRTs that do not hunt small furries and Spitzes that do not bark, and yet this doesn't mean that the behavior is not characteristic of the breed just because there are some individuals that exhibit it.

Herding of children should be discouraged and trained out, I don't disagree, but it is not a behavior that either implies aggression or leads to aggression, so I stand by my claim that it is not dangerous.

There are no reliable conclusions with respect to breeds and bites. The best we can say is that breeds that are most popular tend to bite more but this may well be down to their popularity rather than breed characteristics, i.e. the more popular the breed, the more dogs there are of that breed and the more likely that novice owners will own them and fail to train them properly, therefore resulting in more bites by that breed.

Getting a dog now would be a great time to train it

when I said "much more likely" I didn't mean 'all'. Much more likely means that there is a higher probability rather than a certainty so of course there are collies that do not herd
I think you have have misinterpreted what I was trying to say here.
Most collies will show herding behaviour, particularly those of a working line but it can show up in show lines too.
More collies than not will exhibit herding instinct, it usually shows itself in early puppyhood.
But it cannot ever be tolerated towards people.
All puppies nip and yes, some collies do nip too but generally, collies don’t tend to nip in herding unless they feel the situation warrants it because the sheep is particularly stubborn.
You tend to get things like hard staring ‘eye’ or creeping before nips.
Because collies don’t primarily herd by nipping.
Droving dogs do, but collies herd primarily by eye.

Herding of children should be discouraged and trained out, I don't disagree, but it is not a behavior that either implies aggression or leads to aggression, so I stand by my claim that it is not dangerous
So a collie that sees a child repeatedly running round and grabs a hold of its arm and draws blood isn’t dangerous?
What about the collie that repeatedly chases a screaming, terrified child nipping (biting) his ankles drawing blood, is that not dangerous?
Because regardless of whether or not the dog intends to cause harm, the law would see both of those dogs as ‘dangerously out of control’ and causing injury.

There are no reliable conclusions with respect to breeds and bites. The best we can say is that breeds that are most popular tend to bite more but this may well be down to their popularity rather than breed characteristics, i.e. the more popular the breed, the more dogs there are of that breed and the more likely that novice owners will own them and fail to train them properly, therefore resulting in more bites by that breed
I do agree that popularity plays a big part here.
I agree that it is no coincidence that the most popular breeds like labs, spaniels and jacks are very high up.
However.
Being high strung, bossy and needing to control things and liking peace and quiet, I would argue that a border collie has a higher chance than some other dog breeds of disliking children.
I would also argue that the instinct of a collie is to try and regain control, if they haven’t been taught that herding behaviour towards people is unacceptable they are very likely to try and regain control of lively children and if they can’t do that by eye they absolutely will bite.
It hurts, it draws blood, it causes injury.
It is dangerous for all concerned.
Particularly the collie, who may well end up being PTS

Yes, I completely agree that I would not recommend a collie for a family with young children, especially as a first dog. There are so many other options that there is no reason to make things more challenging.

With respect to bites I was not referring to the law. Strict liability is quite a different matter from an assessment of the dog's likelihood to cause harm.

I've no view on collies. I've known demented ones and lovely family dog ones.

We got our puppy 6 weeks before lockdown. She's 4 months now. The first 3 weeks I worked from home - but it was really hard to work. Getting very little sleep as DH was away and it was just me. So I did bugger all work really.

Then dropped her off to in laws for the day while I went back to work. Still very little sleep!

Then started working from home just before official lockdown. It's been good being here full time, its helped with training. She's calmed down so can actually get some work done and she's sleeping through the night. she sleeps a lot in the day.

I think its a great time to get a dog = you can spend loads of time with it. Just get the ground rules sorted with the kids. Puppies need a lot of sleep and a place to call their own to get away from the kids. Socialisation can be done at a distance.

Get a good puppy book and read it first, like easy squeezy puppy or the happy puppy handbook. Puppy proof the house - so take away the obvious targets for chewing. Anything left out is fair game to start with.

Sorry, just seen you changed your mind. I think that's a shame, the puppy has been a tremendous focus for us, a huge cheerer upper and a source of real joy. She's given us perspective and hope.

OP don't let strangers on the internet make your decisions for you!

There's so many benefits to having a dog. We had a gorgeous collie growing up who was just a fantastic dog.

Do what is right for YOU! And your family.

I got a puppy during lockdown. So far our experience has been very positive. We have had lots of time to train the pup. When we were having issues with some training we had a Skype session with a dog behavioural therapist who helped show us what to do over the computer. We had no problem getting vaccinations - just let pup go in with vet himself. Or supplies as amazon has everything. You can always ring your local vet and check? We’ve lined up a day care for when we go back to work (only 3 days a week) so we aren’t too concerned about separation anxiety - we just need him to be happy for a few hours while we go shops etc so we are working on that now.

He’s also met all the neighbour kids - we’ve just let him run over to them outside and he’s been very good with them. Also got some good tips from a thread on here - played him lots of sounds on tv, met bin men /post man and other delivery men as we have just been letting him out into our contained front garden when they come in. Also met lots of other animals as we live rurally enough. I think you need to tailor socialisation to what your circumstance is. Some books go on about puppies needing to go on trains/buses etc and I was worried about that until I realised we never go on buses or trains ourselves so why would he need to do that!!!!

I would say go for it. Lockdown is going to ease now over the next few weeks too so by the time you get your pup I’m sure some puppy classes in park will be back up and running and you will be able to expand your social circle for pup too. If he’s only 3 weeks you’re talking another month and half before you get him and I’d imagine lots of things will be up and running by then.

Also a very positive lockdown puppy experience here. We picked up our pup the week before lockdown, and yes it's been hard work - as all puppies are - but he's given us all a new focus and has been a brilliant distraction from less than normal times. The DC adore him. We consider ourselves very lucky to have got him when we did.

Just to say that we had decided to get a puppy during the summer holidays (having thought about it and discussed it for several years) but brought it forward because of the lockdown and it's been absolutely great.

Same. It's really given us focus and distraction and dc are massively involved in her care and training. They are slightly older than OP's at just turned 7 and 10 but are amazing with her. I'm not getting the struggling to socialise as we can still go out and walk around carrying her, see new sights and smells. We have communal gardens and no other dogs so she's met all the neighbourhood kids and many of the neighbours. She can't go down and meet other dogs or run around in the parks just now anyway. But once she's vaccinated she can of course go for walks out in public and sniff other dogs. We can still train her to be alone by gradually leaving the house for a few seconds, then minutes, then popping to the shop etc. I can't think of a better time to be able to all dedicate so much time. By the time OP's pup has had her second vaccinated it will be more than 2 months away. Restrictions are likely to be lessened.

Also bare in mind, vets are not doing injections for puppies atm

They are though, I collected my pup on Saturday and she'd had her fist vax. She's booked in for second

I'm not sure about a collie. I've known working and rescue ones that have been a bit intense but we had one as a kids and she was a dream dog. I've also got 2 friends with collies and young kids and both are absolute dopes. Probably worth looking at the parents for an idea in individual pups. We are also a camping/walking family. We went with a Jack Russell Terrier as we wanted an active and athletic but small dog as we live in a flat

Great time to get a puppy as you are at home, it's made lockdown fabulous for me. You can still get vaccinations.

But I wouldn't get a border collie, as gorgeous and lovely natured as they are, they can be bonkers! My friend has one and the amount of exercise he needs is shocking. They are so intelligent they need to be trained, stimulated and have large spaces to walk and run every day.

They can go for miles and miles and they are also big dogs, so quite overwhelming when locked down in a house, even the puppies are big. But depends on your house size and obviously your choice.

But a border pup will be exhausting, their energy levels are through the roof.

We've been talking about a puppy for a couple of years but it never seemed a good time, mainly in terms of having time at home to train. The confinement has been the perfect opportunity.

We got him 9 days ago and it's been a breeze. He slept in his crate from day one in the living room and didn't cry once. He now goes to sleep there during the day of his own accord. He is really good, independent and happy to play on his own although loves cuddles too. He so far has been easier than the cat we used to have!

My brother has a welsh collie. We’ve found she is very much focused on him rather than the rest of the family so I’m not sure if they all have a tendency to be ‘one master’ dogs rather than family dogs but it’s worth researching that. She loves a game with my children when we visit but my brother only has to click his fingers and she’ll leave the game to be at his side. She also watches him constantly, even when they’ve been busy so she isn’t a restful dog to have. Could just be her but that is our experience of a collie.

That said, the responsiveness means she ignores other dogs on walks and focuses on the people she’s with so we never have her running off and she is more obedient and clever than any other dogs we have in the wider family. Wouldn’t swap her but she does have unique collie traits we haven’t seen in our other dogs through the family.

We'll be picking up our border collie puppy in June OP. I'm a university student so was due to be on summer holidays anyway from June to October. Have you really decided against it now?

@OwlInAnOakTree talk to me about your decision to get a border collie. We have discussed it again as a family and agree it's something that we all want. Some of the comments on here scared me a little about collies and we have spent some time researching other breeds, but there is literally nothing that we can agree on apart from a collie. I do like the idea of spending time on training, but as a first time dog owner I'm a little worried that I might be biting off more than i can chew.