Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Cruciate ligament injury - does it ever resolve with rest?

49 replies

DishingOutDone · 07/04/2020 18:14

My cocker is 16 kilos. He's been having problems for 2 weeks and the vet said we need to be even stricter with rest so confined to house for 2 weeks (even the dog is self isolating!). He's on metacam and has pain relief if required. He said if no improvement they will x-ray and decide on surgery; I thought that sounded very reasonable.

Now I've been reading Fitzpatrick Referrals website and they seem to say that cruciate ligament never heals with rest and immediate surgery is the only answer. We live an hour away from Fitzpatrick's and its hardly the time to be setting off on journeys, but if you were me would you ring our own vet back and say hey, I am not sure this is the best way forward?

H thinks its a great way forward as it requires no effort or input on this part. I'd like to think our own vet is right but ....

Anyone else had this experience?

OP posts:

devildeepbluesea · 08/04/2020 17:30

DDog snapped his aged 10. At the time I wasn't given the option of just rest, maybe because it was such a bad injury, I don't know. He had the surgery and recovered well, although that in itself was a slow process.

A year or so ago (aged 15) he did his other one, but I don't think he buggered it up quite as completely as the other. Obviously at that age he wasn't a candidate for surgery so we treated with rest. Took a really long time but he's all healed now (and nearly 18!).

Our vet was a leading ortho specialist (not Fitzpatrick) who was semi retired and came in just to do cruciates and other ortho/ ligament injuries and DDog had impeccable care.

VetOnCall · 08/04/2020 18:29

I would really try not to let him do any of that, rest really does mean rest. Unfortunately dogs are not very good at self-regulating as a rule so you have to do it for him. If he's liable to run up and down stairs and jump on and off furniture then he should be crated now or it is very unlikely to resolve itself and he may actually cause further damage which will require a more drastic fix, a longer recovery period etc.

Original poster

DishingOutDone · 08/04/2020 18:32

I was worried you were going to say that @VetOnCall.

OP posts:

BiteyShark · 08/04/2020 18:40

Cannot comment on cruciate ligament injury but on the issue of stopping them jumping and running about to fully rest we had a situation of needing to rest our dog for weeks following a bad injury.

We emptied a room and removed all furniture that a dog could jump on and then put a mattress on the floor. This meant he had a room to stay in and I could sit and sleep next to him so he had company. It was much easier to keep him calm and safe without having to restrict him to a crate.

Original poster

DishingOutDone · 08/04/2020 18:42

BiteyShark!!

OP posts:

BiteyShark · 08/04/2020 18:44

Unfortunately our dog has been a nightmare for injuries or needing to recover from operations so emptying a room to make a recovery area is not unusual in this household 😭

Original poster

DishingOutDone · 08/04/2020 18:46

I just suggested it to DH. He's not happy!

OP posts:

VetOnCall · 08/04/2020 19:19

I would just get a crate, he's going to need it anyway if he has the surgery. Get the biggest one you can so he has room to stand up, move around a bit etc. He doesn't have to be in it 24/7, but should be in there when you're not sitting with him to make sure he isn't going up and down the stairs, jumping at the window etc. He should be on lead to go out to the garden to stop him running/jumping.

Original poster

DishingOutDone · 08/04/2020 22:28

I have got a big crate @VetOnCall. I just worry he'll get very distressed being in it. BTW he's still on metacam but I was told to cut down/cut out the pain relief (pardale?)

OP posts:

VetOnCall · 08/04/2020 23:19

He doesn't have to be crated all the time - if he'll settle on the sofa with you in the evening and/or sleep with you all night for example that's fine (but don't let him jump on and off sofa or bed!). It's more if you're busy and can't watch him to stop him jumping at the windows, going upstairs etc. If he continues to jump around like that he's very likely going to need surgery after which you'll have to crate him so either way you need to bite the bullet. It's tough but sometimes you have to be the bad cop for their overall good. You sooner you give it a real chance to see if things improve the sooner you'll know if you can persevere with that or get him in for surgery so the sooner you'll get him back to normal either way.

Metacam is an anti-inflammatory painkiller so should be giving some relief. The issue with giving a lot of pain relief in this situation is that the dog starts jumping around on the affected leg again, risking exacerbation of the injury.

VetOnCall · 08/04/2020 23:20

The sooner you give it a real chance...

Original poster

DishingOutDone · 08/04/2020 23:41

Thank you @VetOnCall you have been generous with your time and advice I really appreciate it. The vet is nice enough but we had to shout at each other across the car park so I didn't want to keep asking questions. I agree with your crate logic and it sounds workable. Well, at least we need to give it a go.

OP posts:

VetOnCall · 09/04/2020 00:22

No problem, we're on reduced hours and emergency/essential treatment only here in Canada too so I have a lot more free time than usual! I hope he gets on well, if you have any questions I'm happy to help

As an aside I'd look at getting him on a good joint supplement asap. He's inevitably going to develop osteoarthritis in the affected joint. This stuff is excellent, I get it shipped over here from the UK for my dogs: www.riaflex.co.uk/products/canine-joint-plus/

Tamberlane · 09/04/2020 00:40

Rest for a cruicate. in my opinion and what we recommend at work, means cage rest or severe exercise restriction not just chilling around the house and being able to run up to doors jump on couches etc.
I'd use a crate or play pen and heavily restrict movement. lead in and out the the bathroom etc.
Cage rest also helps protects the other leg from being overly favored and been placed under extra strain(many dogs will rupture the other cruicate within 12 months)
Its easier to start getting them used to this before the 6 weeks of rehab post surgery.

At 16kg I'd consider surgery if no improvement after 2 weeks on complete rest and evidence of rupture.

Original poster

DishingOutDone · 09/04/2020 13:45

Do the vets on here think that the animal's mental frustration is physically damaging? So we as we are ramping up the restrictions he's getting more and more upset, crying and pacing, scratching the doors etc.

Also I think we will have to stop the metacam, he's had over 2 weeks of it and has started to drain his water bowl - I've put in a call to the vets to confirm this but not sure what they will recommend (NSAIDs for dogs?)

OP posts:

BiteyShark · 09/04/2020 15:18

That is why we picked a room and I stayed with my dog almost 24/7. Keeping everything calm and boring helped settle ours down. Not totally but with him being on lead in the garden for toileting then back in the room with me and with little to do calmed him down a lot.

VetOnCall · 09/04/2020 15:48

Can you give him things to keep his mind occupied - Kongs, puzzle toys, chews etc.? He really does need to be physically restricted, i.e. crated, most of the time or he's going to cause more damage to the injured leg and potentially the other one too as it's taking more strain. If you can't keep him on strict rest for at least the next couple of weeks I'd go ahead and have the surgery now because he's likely going to need it anyway if he keeps moving around so much, plus you get it done before he makes things worse, and you get his recovery underway as quickly as possible.

Metacam is an NSAID. It is considered safe to use for medium-long term pain management. A couple of weeks is very short-term use. Always best to speak to your own vet about any concerns though as they know his individual case.

leckford · 09/04/2020 17:18

We tried this with our Golden Retriever, did not work she had the op. Sadly we recently lost her to old age

Original poster

DishingOutDone · 09/04/2020 19:14

I sit with him all day. He stands next to me and cries. Hates puzzle toys, has chews but they don't distract him for more than a few minutes, same with kongs maybe 5 minutes at the most? He's not a calm soul.

I don't know why I thought Metacam was a steroid. I rang the vet's office today and for some reason they said I would need to pay for a consultation in order to be told whether or not to stop giving it to him. I definitely think we need an earlier review, 2 weeks time from the last appointment would be 21st April, we'll all be pacing the floor crying and refusing to take a chew toy by then! I agree that allowing him to carry on like this for 2 weeks isn't going to help. I'll get our big crate set up tomorrow and see how it goes. Thanks all and sorry to hear about your old girl @leckford, how old was she when she had the leg op?

OP posts:

Original poster

DishingOutDone · 24/05/2020 23:24

Just an update on this, he had the x-ray and it was confirmed as cruciate ligament, but he isn't limping any more - vet said to increase exercises to 3 x 30 minutes a day maximum , stop metacam and monitor - he said they wont do the op during lockdown etc unless its an emergency.

He seems mostly ok now, occasional "hop", we roll his ball along the ground rather than throw, we will just wait and see now - the vet said they only have half their vets in due to social distancing and in any case they would prefer to call a specialist in, or refer to one, and those things aren't possible currently for a dog in no pain and not limping. So that's where we are, waiting and seeing.

I did get the joint powder thing that vet upthread recommended but we haven't tried it yet.

OP posts:

CrocodilesCry · 09/09/2020 23:51

@DishingOutDone Just wondering how your boy is getting on?

Ddog has developed a very slight limp (she's held her leg up and hopped on it literally twice - once over the weekend and previously about four weeks ago) and she's not quite properly putting her back right leg down all of the time. If you didn't know her it's truly barely noticeable but I don't want her to be in pain.

Vet yesterday said she seemed to be walking fine - however thought it could be a cruciate tear or patella injury. I'm not however fully confident in the vet who literally dragged her by the lead into the consultation room without me

We're making sure she rests as much as possible for a week but we simply cannot stop this dog from running up stairs, bouncing about or jumping around. Just really interested to hear how you're getting on with your boy.

Original poster

DishingOutDone · 15/10/2020 23:49

@CrocodilesCry well that's odd I wanted to resurrect this thread because ... he's done the other leg now!!

When I first took my dog to the vet back in March, they put him straight on metacam for inflammation and Pardale for pain and said how he goes, then when it happened again shortly afterwards they booked him in for x-ray so if your dog is still limping etc then go back or change vet. Its a simple physical exam first of all then an x-ray if needed to confirm it. Depends how bad the limp is though - I know what you mean about it being barely discernible, even when DDog was confirmed to have cruciate ligament injury, you couldnt really see the limp.

So anyway, now the left leg has gone too. He'd been fine most of lock down odd limp for a few minutes, and vet said they could not operate unless he was clearly in need - but we got complacent and started allowing him to chase the ball again. First of all he started to limp more noticeably on the original right leg, so I booked a vet appointment, whilst we were waiting for that he did the left leg - he played with the ball in the park, came home, lay down and an hour later he couldn't get up. So back on the metacam/pardale and now the vet is recommending we book him in for TPLO on the right leg.

My vet doesn't do both legs at once so we are looking a veterinary hospitals to get advice on whether to try both at once (Fitzpatricks do it) - it seems like a lot to go through twice :( being confined to a crate etc.

But I see its a month since your dog was injured - are they ok now or did it develop?

@VetOnCall - waving to Canda! I did get that Riaflex I am sure its helping, but wondered if you were around, what do you think of bilateral TPLO rather than one at a time? Or do you personally not advocate TPLO?

(for anyone that wants to google, TPLO is the procedure where they cut and pin the bone)

OP posts:

Milo13 · 16/03/2023 16:07

How's your doggie now?

Florida2020 · 04/09/2023 14:59

Hi,
My wee dog of 14 years partially tore his cruitiate. We didn't want to put him through the brutal surgery ( I have heard) 6 months later he is fairly sound now!
I'm not gonna lie it's a loooong journey! We lost our lives for the first 3 lol. Chairs over , mattress on the floor etc, we both had to take holidays! Buuut, would do it over again!

Flip

1 2