Dog not house trained at 4 years old

[Honeyandlemon19]

Hi all.

We’ve got an issue with our dogs toilet habits. It’s been building up for a while and we’ve been burying our head in the sand but I feel like now is the time to tackle this.

She’s 4 and a half years old and basically she’s still not house trained. I’ve spoken to the vet and they believe it is behaviour related rather than something being physically wrong with her. She knows to go to the back door to go outside for the toilet if she needs to and will do this when we’re there.(Yes she uses the garden and we clean it regularly) But if we go upstairs, for example overnight or even during the day for short times, she doesn’t always hold it. It can be a pee or a poo. We always make sure we let her out before we go anywhere and reward her for going outside but it’s been years and it’s not working.

We’ve been coping by still using puppy pads. Obviously this really only helps with the pee but even then it’s not ideal. I know it’s disgusting that a dog poops in our house regularly and it’s really getting me down. We also have a baby now and it’s really panicking me how we’re going to manage when she’s crawling and walking so I’d like to get it sorted. I also panic about people calling over if we’ve just been out as you don’t know what you’re coming back to.

She’s never alone for very long. Maybe an hour or two at most if I go out with the baby. But you can be upstairs for only minutes and come back down to a mess. Or we can be out for a couple of hours and there’ll be nothing.

She isn’t crate trained, just has a bed in the kitchen. Would crate training make a difference? I don’t really understand how crates are used, when do you close them in?

I should mention she also has epilepsy. She takes tablets daily but only for the last year or so as she only had her first seizure in Feb last year whereas these issues have been going on since we got her as a puppy and I trained her as best I could for weeks and weeks, going outside every half an hour with her until she would go. Like I said she seems to know that’s what she should be doing but just doesn’t seem to hold it if we’re not there. Maybe is a separation anxiety thing?

We also don’t really walk her in a routined sort of way. She hates walking round the streets where we live, like literally just plants her bum down and won’t move. We usually end up carrying her back. Only if we go to the beach or something is she happy to walk so it’s not really been a daily thing. She mostly just goes out to the garden and is happiest on the sofa.

Thanks x

I would not consider crating an adult dog (4yo is adult) who has never been crated before. That's not the way to go.

Just train the dog during the day to only toilet outside (through back to basics repetition) and it will come overnight in time anyway. You need to nail daytime toilet training first and that doesn't involve a crate anyway.

I know it’s difficult, but I think routine, consistency and going back to basics is really the only way to fix this. Whichever way you go about it, it’s going to take time and effort.

It’s difficult having a baby and training a dog, when we got one of ours he was 3 and not house trained, we had 2 kids under 3 and I was pregnant. Hubby was working away and I was totally overwhelmed at the thought of training him along with everything else I had to manage alone. It really didn’t take long though, within a few weeks he was house trained and we were in a routine that worked for us all. I got a sling for the baby (try different types, there are loads out there, mine always loved a stretchy or a Mei tai) and we’d all trot out to the garden every 30 mins, then every 45, then an hour etc etc etc. I’d get up an hour earlier than usual and we’d all walk the dog together, took a while to train the dog to walk next to the pram but we practiced around the garden and he soon got the hang of it. Then a walk just before the kids’ bath and bedtime. Like I said, it’s not easy or convenient, but it is doable and the hardest part doesn’t last long. I can’t imagine there’ll be a way to fix this problem that won’t be time consuming or inconvenient. Good luck

You can crate train a dog at any age just as you can teach new behaviors at any age. The key is to crate train, not just shut the dog in a crate. I would feed in the crate, I.e. put the food bowl in there every time she eats, leave for 15 minutes, and then remove. No harm in leaving the water bowl in there all the time.

Thanks all. I think we will give crate training a go. I do think there’s a bit of separation anxiety going on so maybe her feeling like she has a safe space will help. Can’t hurt to try, we can always remove it if it doesn’t work.

She’s a small Jack Russell and only fed wet food pouches, she hated dry stuff so there isn’t ever food just left sitting out so set mealtimes should be easy enough for her.

We’re going to get the baby carrier out this weekend and give it a try. If we could walk her in the morning before hubby goes to work then I walk her in the afternoon with baby, then maybe one more walk about 10pm hopefully that will help too.

Teaching the dog that the crate is a safe cosy space will be a boon when your baby comes along anyway. It sounds as if the dog is a little anxious so somewhere for it to go if it feels overwhelmed or if it needs a rest from the crawling/toddling DC is always a good idea. As long as the crate is introduced properly most dogs love it. Cover it partially with a blanket to make it extra cosy and den-like.

Hi OP

I just wanted to say what really turned our toilet training around with our chihuahua (notoriously hard to toilet train) was crate training. I can not recommend it enough and our dog loves his crate too.

Good luck!

Thank you all again!

I’ve taken the pads away today. Been trying to get her out every half hour and making a big fuss if she does anything. Baby can sometimes take an age to settle for a nap but I’ll keep trying to stick to every half hour when I’m home. Not sure what to do if I need to go out though?

Just about to order the Amazon basic crate and a mat for it. I’ve some blankets she’s already used to for going over the top to make it cosy and I’ll get her a new toy.

My plan is to just leave it open to begin with and keep her bowls outside it. But reward her every time she goes in and get her really used to it. Then maybe after a couple of nights sleeping in it with the door open, I’ll try closing it for a few seconds first then a few minutes when I leave the room, building up to maybe an hour if I go out, and then eventually a few hours. Is the ultimate idea to close the door all night with a crate?

Here is some crate training advice:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/3777555-Crate-training

That’s really helpful booboostwo thanks!

So she eventually should be fine overnight with the door closed. I’m just confused over whether or not to have her food and water bowls in there. That link says to give all food in the crate but then a lot of people don’t have any bowls in the crates from what pictures I’ve seen online

I think the idea of putting the food in the crate at first is to make it a good place to be. Not sure it's necessary long term.

Covering the back and sides of the crate is a very good idea; makes it as cave like as possible.

Water should always be in the crate in my opinion as you can't leave a dog overnight without means to drink.

Also be careful about leaving her collar on when she's in the crate, dogs have been known to get their collars caught.

That FB group is awesome and also has a file on crate training.
If you are thinking separation anxiety then you need to rule that out before introducing a crate. Can you record her when you’re out? That would help you rule it out or confirm it. Don’t shut a dog in a crate who has SA. The dog may actually injure itself. (That group also has advice on crate training too.)

If you feed her for 15 minutes twice a day then the bowl wouldn't be in there for the whole day. I would give her all her food and treats in there for a first few weeks to create positive association with the crate.

She never wears a collar. Only a harness when out for walks. She hates a collar and I have no idea how but always managed to get out of them so I was terrified of her choking on it so took it off completely.

We’ve recorded her before when we go out and to be honest she just goes to bed. She doesn’t sit and whine or anything. It just seems to have become a thing when the baby came along and I’d have to go upstairs randomly to put her down for a nap or change her. Maybe the dog just panicked that she didn’t know when I’d be back.

Just a gentle FYI OP, it’s a legal requirement for your dog to wear a collar and name tag when out in public.

Does the tag actually have to be attached to a collar Thedeadwood

My dog has one attached to her harness when she's out and rarely wears her collar, although that also has a tage attached.

Surely, it's just a case that the dog should by law have a means by which to identify it.

Hey Pigs,

Technically, the Control of Dogs Act does actually refer to a collar (see below), however, I would say it's the ID that's the most important aspect, so I wouldn't worry too much if your harness has a tag.

below, every dog while in a highway or in a place of public resort shall wear a collar with the name and address of the owner inscribed on the collar or on a plate or badge attached to it.

She has two tags on her harness, one with our details and one to indicate she’s epileptic. I’m sure it’d be fine if they’re on the harness and not a collar. She’s also microchipped.

Thanks for that Thedeadwood

That's what I assumed.

She doesn't wear her collar much because she doesn't like it when the tag taps on her food bowl, so I just started removing it and then very often don't bother to put it back on.

Tbh you can't actually see whether she's wearing a collar or not most of the time as the fluff on her neck completely covers it. She's very hairy.

This sounds more and more like a stress issue. Do try the Adaptil difusers they can help some dogs. Zylkene tablets are also worth trying but they are more expensive.

Agree with those who say back to basics is the only way and that routine is good for babies and dogs alike. Put the baby in a sling and that way she just comes along with you when you are dealing with the dog.

Just a gentle FYI OP, it’s a legal requirement for your dog to wear a collar and name tag when out in public.

It's fine if the tag is attached to a harness instead.