Is this the end of the road?

[Bigmango]

We have a lovely, feisty little Lakeland terrier who is 10 months old. We also have a 20 month old daughter and in retrospect, no there is no way I would advise anyone takes on a puppy and a toddler. It has been a tough journey managing both of them, but we have finally felt as if we are turning a corner; he is so much more happy to chill around us and is really part of the family now.

The biggest issue we have had with him has been him barking at small children. I have never encouraged my daughter to be overly touchy feely with him and have always managed their interactions carefully. I have read and watched stuff on dog body language and he never shown any signs of being anxious or defensive in her company. But there has been numerous incidences of him barking at small children on walks and when we are in the car. I have sought advice from a behaviourist as it has obviously concerned me greatly. I have been following her advice eg avoiding all situations where at all possible, using open bar/closed bar when children in sight etc and I thought we were seeing progress.

Last weekend we went away with family and went for a walk. A group were walking ahead of us including a few small children. Dpup noticed them and at times wanted to pull ahead as they were playing in puddles etc which he loved but on the whole ignored. I kept lingering a little though as was keen to keep as far away as possible (dpup on lead the whole time obv). Eventually they stopped and the dad came back to speak to us as he had a similar dog in the past. Dpup said hello to him fine but I hadn’t realised the daughter was coming over to say hi to him as I was talking. Totally my fault - I let my guard down - but as she put her hand out to say hi (in gloves btw but not sure if this is relevant) he lunged towards her. No contact made and she was totally nonplussed, as was her dad, but tbh I was devastated. This is a game changer for me.

So what do I do next? Obviously I do not want to just pass this problem onto someone else. I know without careful managing and training this could get worse. I am taking him to the vets and hoping to get a behaviour training referral once anything physical has been ruled out, but I’m not sure even if I put the work in, if I can ever totally trust him. I have lots of nephews and nieces and friends with children and I’m just not sure I could ever say for definite that he won’t lunge or bite. I feel so awful. I feel like we have let him down even though I’m not sure what we could have done differently. Is there a chance he will grow out of this or do we have to seriously start thinking about rehoming to someone who doesn’t have regular contact with small children. Sorry for the essay!

it's interesting what you say about neutering - he's very young to have been neutered as he won't have fully developed yet. Is there any reason you got him done so young?

I only mention this because dogs who are fearful and who are neutered at a young age can remain fearful for life. They don't have the testosterone necessary to overcome whatever they're frightened of and just stay that way forever - it's like they're stuck in that teenage phase once their hormones have died down.

Personally I think anything before eighteen months is too young for male dogs.

With respect that is not what the science says about neutering.

Recent studies show a link between early neutering and some fear behaviours but have not shown causation.

It may well be that fearful dogs are more likely to be neutered early in an attempt to help with behavioural problems.

Or it may that neutering causes a loss of confidence.

The science is, as yet, unclear. Mainly because there are just a small number of studies in the matter. Time and more research will hopefully tell. In the meantime it's important for the science not to be translated like that because it risks people making the wrong deceiving or (perhaps worse) feeling like they caused a problem by neutering early when we don't yet know if that's the case.

OP I would be very surprised if the adaptil collar worked because I don't think appeasement pheromones are going to make much of a difference here.

This dog is still young and as previously been mentioned, likely to be a second fear phase.

Slow and patient training with the support of a good behaviourist while he continues to mature is the best chance, I think. In short, helping him mature as beat as possible and then assessing him and his future based on adult behaviour.

There is a reason most dogs are surrendered to rescues at this age. Especially males.

Have a look here - thebark.com/content/adolescent-dogs-go-through-fear-periods

This might not be the full explanation and your dog may also fear children in addition to this but I wonder if this isn't part of what you're seeing.

Well it's certainly something we were warned about by our vet and it was common chat on our specific breed forum. I think we just have a difference of opinion @FuriousFlannels as I've read plenty of studies that say that it's recommended to neuter fearful males before they're fully grown and developed.

Of course people have the right to neuter their pets whenever they want but to ignore the potential risks of early neutering would be silly imo.

Lots of vets will neuter simply because the owners ask them to, or because the dog is humping/marking and they think neutering will solve the problem.

Our practise is very reluctant to neuter dogs before 18-24 months unless for medical reasons (like undescended testicles) as they don't believe it's the right thing for most males.

*not recommended to neuter that should say.

Scientific studies don't make recommendations like that so I suspect what you've read are opinion pieces. There certainly is a lot of opinions out there.

There are lots of good medical reasons why you would not neuter early - bone development being a biggie. I'm not saying there isn't. I'm not particularly a fan of neutering at all, as it happens.

But I also don't think that suggesting to an OP they may have caused a fear problem by neutering is any good and is factually problematic because there is no evidence for it.

There is, as yet, no hard science on a causation between early neutering and fear aggression. There may well be a causation but there also might not be.

Interestingly the US typically neuter at a few weeks old, the UK at a few months and in some other European countries (Norway) not at all. However the reported rates of fear problems as a % of the population presented to behaviourists doesn't vary much at all.

Of course there could be a thousand reasonings for that but you might expect the situation to be different so it's an interesting thought.

(ps am not advocating anyone neuter at 8 weeks old).

So it’s a general fear response not a specific one with children, that is a big clue.

No harm in trying the Adaptil, but try the Zylkene as well. Dogs who are going through growth sprees can become deficient in magnesium which can make them fearful. I had one like that, who definitely had peaks of fear as a puppy/teenager. Did you check the protein levels in his food? Again this is something you can try with little cost and no risk.

Thank you all again for all your responses.

Yes @adaline I think we neutered far to early on the advice of our vet. He was humping and marking a lot and she said it would help. It did but I now realise that it would have been best to wait. There are so many things I would do differently next time around! (Ha ha! Next time!). Obviously the idea that I may have frozen him in this stage for life is pretty terrifying so I really hope that’s not the case!

I am going to look into the zylkene @Booboostwo. Thanks. Re protein- I will have a look at his food. I am moving to raw as he is just not interested in his kibble unless I pimp it up or throw it around for him as a game. I think the behaviourist we are hoping to work with does a nutrition work up alongside our vet so may wait till then before changing anything.

It’s rare for it to be the protein, I’ve only seen it in one dog, but it doesn’t hurt to keep it to the back of your mind. The packaging of his kibble should tell you the protein content, it’s usually 23-26% and you’d want to bring it down to 10%.

Him not liking his food may be a clue (or not, these things are so complex). Does he have any other signs of gastro related problems, e.g. frequent diarrhea or vomiting? Any skin problems?

@Bigmango I would get the help of an accredited behaviourist and work closely with them - hopefully that will help some of his behaviours :)

We had a hard time with ours when he was a teenager and I ended up in tears on numerous occasions. He pulled me over more than once, barked a lot at other dogs, lunged...the works! It was so difficult and I went through a period where I dreaded walking him because it was so embarrassing to be that owner with the unruly dog!

But I'm so glad we hung in there because he's a million times better now. He's calmer, more obedient, much more even tempered - I genuinely thought we'd be stuck with a reactive dog for life at one point (which I'd have accepted but wasn't what I wanted from dog ownership) but he's golden now. I can take him shopping, into town, in the car and he's just fine.

Please don't give up just yet!

Thank you @adaline - I need to hear that! No way I would give up on him anytime soon. Going through all of this has made me realise how much I love the little bugger!