Terrier chasing cats - and DD15

[PookieDo]

I have a Small terrier X and a cat

Cat here first but both same age, same size as each other

Dog and cat have had a couple of small/no injury bust ups - always started by the dog. Dog seemingly cannot handle cat type movements and is easily triggered into chasing and herding the cat. Cat holds her own and has lightly scratched dog once or twice on the nose, the dog doesn’t get too close anymore as has realised claws, but still goes into chase mode

I keep them apart quite well and have a system where if they are together I am present and very instructive to dog not to react. Cat has high places to go and my system is one upstairs one down and dog restricted to the opposite floor to the cat. I also always use the back door though the back garden to the house as our front door opens onto a cul de sac road and have a baby gate up inside. Dog is never let off lead as he will chase things like cats at high speed

DC are teenagers but quite dippy about this system - the altercations have only ever happened when DD15 has been in the room with them both, such as leaving the baby gate open and she panics and not manage it well, usually results in an around the house chase

Today DD15 used the front door to come into the house when the baby gate was open (she left it open) and the dog saw a strange cat out the front and legged it like the speed of lightening down the road. She wasn’t careful about coming into the door, opening slowly or using her feet to block the dog, she just opened the door wide

We got him back thank god (a lot of yelling!) before anything awful happened. I want to be fuming at DD but she was quite shaken up by it. I just don’t know how to get through to her how to be more responsible about this and THINK about her actions. She’s always been this way, dippy and quite thoughtless although she is lovely and sweet girl, it’s not intentional - but it could have been awful consequences

I don’t think I can train a 6yo dog not to chase cats. I was cross with them both!

This is the issue it’s a minefield where to find one. I’ve found one from that site that seems to be about 30 miles away - she may cover my area. It is £400 falls over

Yes he is hard work but he is also extremely affectionate, playful, sweet, friendly (to humans) and otherwise well behaved. I felt very sorry for him having had a really bumpy life with no consistency. He has gone from being a barking weeing PITA to far far better to manage in that respect but still a lot of challenges and I was hoping he would finally settle when he had consistency/training/walks/attention

I understand he’s had a lot of behavioural training in the past but the owner didn’t follow any of it through

If he is on lead and I see another dog I will cross the road and often stop walking or slow down while I talk to him and distract him then reward him for being calm. This works only to a certain point. Same with cat. If he is being annoying to the cat, or barking he is able to be called off by me and sent to his bed. Then we have let our guard down twice now and these things have happened and probably set us back.

I’ve looked at predatory aggression. He is so bloody noisy when he does chase anything it is not silent hunting or stalking or lunging so I am really unsure to be honest. He will snuffle and grunt and then bark very loudly and then just stop what is doing - as if he has run out of steam

@DancingDella

This isn’t very helpful or constructive and isn’t helping me work this out at all.

I adopted an unwanted dog and gave him a home. I met him with the cat beforehand on multiple occasions (they are both 6 now) and didn’t see any aggression. This has now changed. He hasn’t touched an animal and I don’t know if he would or he just likes to chase and bark at them. So I am addressing it not ignoring it or allowing him to roam the streets killing cats.

I have a patterdale x who would definitely kill a cat given the opportunity and I wouldn’t consider keeping anything small / furry in our house . He goes off lead in selected areas daily so that he’s well exercised and we have an air lock system around doors / gates in the house / garden so that he cannot escape . I don’t necessarily think you need to rehome him but I do think that if he’s home alone he needs shutting away from the cat so that they cannot possibly interact unsupervised .

He seems to:

Hear a noise or see something and make a grunty kefuff huffy noise (not a growl)
Chase or pull towards it
Stop at it when close
Bark a lot at it
Be told to stop by me or get near it and just bark at it till it goes away

If a cat came into the garden he would chase it and bark at it until it went away then he would sniff around everywhere for a while while making a kind of huffy noise

This is the issue it’s a minefield where to find one. I’ve found one from that site that seems to be about 30 miles away - she may cover my area. It is £400 falls over
Yes they are extremely expensive unfortunately.

Yes he is hard work but he is also extremely affectionate, playful, sweet, friendly (to humans) and otherwise well behaved. I felt very sorry for him having had a really bumpy life with no consistency. He has gone from being a barking weeing PITA to far far better to manage in that respect but still a lot of challenges and I was hoping he would finally settle when he had consistency/training/walks/attention
He may well do if his issues are handled correctly.
Often nervousness is genetic though, as is the degree of predatory instinct.
So there is a risk that he may be unfixable past a certain point.

I understand he’s had a lot of behavioural training in the past but the owner didn’t follow any of it through
If you don't want to rehome all you can really do is follow the advice of a registered behaviourist and be consistent this time.

If he is on lead and I see another dog I will cross the road and often stop walking or slow down while I talk to him and distract him then reward him for being calm. This works only to a certain point. Same with cat. If he is being annoying to the cat, or barking he is able to be called off by me and sent to his bed. Then we have let our guard down twice now and these things have happened and probably set us back

I don't think you should stop walking or slow down, that gives him more time to react nor talk to him to reassure.
It only works to a point because he isn't calm, he is stressed and over threshold.
Keep walking (keeping a big distance) and act unconcerned and feed treats the second the dog comes into view then stop feeding once your past.

In theory the dog learns to associate dogs with food and happy feelings and over time you can lessen the distance until they are cured but in practise I have to say this counter conditioning never really worked for my dog long term.

I agree that any dodgy behaviour towards cat - not just barking but also staring, stiffening up, lunging needs to be corrected and making him lie down in bed is a good way of doing that.

Also calmly feeding treats when cat is around and he is calm.

But ultimately you'll need to be very very cautious and careful not to leave them alone. Ever.

I’ve looked at predatory aggression. He is so bloody noisy when he does chase anything it is not silent hunting or stalking or lunging so I am really unsure to be honest. He will snuffle and grunt and then bark very loudly and then just stop what is doing - as if he has run out of steam
Only a proper behaviourist could tell you for sure but i still think this is predatory behaviour personally

When he got out and chased the cat I chased after him and when I reached him he was standing still on some grass. I couldn’t see what he had chased and he was no longer chasing anything

If he chases my cat it is usually in the evening and usually as she has slinked downstairs and he didn’t hear her coming. She will jump onto the table and growl at him, he will walk around the table and bark at her. If she jumps onto the floor, he might try to chase her.

In the mornings she comes downstairs when we are both down here as she likes to go outside and the dog doesn’t like it when it is cold. He will sit and watch her from his bed. He sometimes blocks her way back into the house, but generally they are more interested in food than each other in the morning.

He is much more excitable when it’s dark - walking him in daylight vs the dark are 2 different experiences

Dog cannot go upstairs and cat has everything she needs upstairs. She’s always been a housecat of her choice all her life and prefers DD15’s bedroom. Even when we didn’t have the dog this is what she did.

The reason I stop or slow down is because I found he was just pulling and would speed up even more. Then I felt like I had lost his attention or control. If I stop or slow he automatically will look at me

If he chases my cat it is usually in the evening and usually as she has slinked downstairs and he didn’t hear her coming. She will jump onto the table and growl at him, he will walk around the table and bark at her. If she jumps onto the floor, he might try to chase her
So movement motivated?
Movement motivated suggests predatory aggression.
Not all dogs that show predatory interest and chase cats will follow through and bite, some just like the chase but if you have a dog excited by movement that chases in response to movement you have to be mindful that there is a fair chance that if that dog catches up he will bite.
Also have to be mindful that terriers have been bred specifically to follow through, they are still widely bred as hunting dogs.

He will sit and watch her from his bed
Like an intense, staring watch with a tense body, pricked forward ears, possibly dilated pupils or a chilled, relaxed watching with chilled relaxed body?
The former is predatory interest.

He sometimes blocks her way back into the house
Personally, that would 100% be a lie down in your bed offence for me.

The reason I stop or slow down is because I found he was just pulling and would speed up even more. Then I felt like I had lost his attention or control. If I stop or slow he automatically will look at me

The reason I stop or slow down is because I found he was just pulling and would speed up even more. Then I felt like I had lost his attention or control. If I stop or slow he automatically will look at me

The pulling and speeding up is imo likely stress.
You are too close to other dogs for him to feel comfortable and he is trying to get away.

I highly recommend you read the book pigs can fly.... it's about training terriers, and has been extremely helpful with my rescue terrier. We also have done lots of training with him- initially used a behaviouralist, but then the kennel club good citizen group classes and now agility- with terriers you need to keep their brain occupied to keep their attention.

He’s movement motivated. For sure. That’s the trigger even if there is no follow through.

He will see people walking from afar when out and stop, even if they don’t have a dog he is alert. Slowing down to let them pass seems to be calmer than rushing past them frantically.

In his bed, hard to tell if staring at her. He’s aware but usually not motivated enough to go outside as well, he isn’t keen on wet cold grass. He will just lie down, sometimes lie his head down but Probably not 100% relaxed. Blocking her coming in gets him sent to bed. To me it comes across as jealously sometimes if he thinks she is getting any attention and he isn’t.

He is a Maltese x Yorkshire
I have read that Maltese are not the same historically as Yorkshire’s bred for different purposes. The yorkie is a different matter

The cat asked to come down this evening. She will sit on the stairs behind the gate waiting, so I have secured the dog away from her. Dog went to find a toy straight away and wanted to play. This is often when DD feels false sense of security and misinterpret that all is calm and then lets her guard down and the dog can become over excited, the cat reacts badly and then the dog will chase her off.

OP I don't think the advice you are getting on here is very helpful tbh
Its very doom and gloom!

Many many dogs will chase cats/squirrels etc. Its an instinct to chase anything that moves. It doesn't mean they are beyond help.

Your system in the house is what many cat and dog owners do, but you do need to press the importance on your daughter.

I would schedule a 1-1 session with a dog trainer to get some advice on how to mange the big dog issue, but that isn't a lost cause at all.
My dog (30kg+) has dog/fear aggression when on lead. It is a bit of a pain but easily managed by being alert and staying out the way of other dogs. Lots of treats whenever another dog comes into view - the 'whats this' command can distract him. A small terrier will be even easier to control.

I have a terrier and 3 cats, terriers are high prey drive animals. Our terrier will chase one cat and bark and growl, the other two have learned to stop dead and the terrier doesn’t know what to do.

One cat love bombs her with head butts and it immediately calms the dog, the other cat bitch slaps or hisses at her and again the dog stops.

I think you have larger problems and the dog is reactive and stressed, there is a company called the Dog Adventure Centre who dog board dogs with issues and have nanny dogs who help. It also has enclosed paddocks for training.

A lot of terriers can be fine with cats if they are exposed to them young and grow up with them, but it really does depend on the dog, because some chase no matter what you do, and some you barely have to train at all

I haven’t had a response from 2 trainers I contacted recently. It put me off that some just seem to be set up as dog groomers and behaviour trainers doesn’t seem like they would be that experienced or qualified

Thanks for all advice

Today I had the gate up for ddog as I was taking in a Tesco delivery. Ddog was being good just sitting still. He’s calmed down from going to DM’s this week - he does not like any change in routine. He likes the same walk at the same time and the same bedtime, the same toys, the same everything. Then he is less anxious.

Anyway DCat came downstairs from DD’s room and without checking, just jumped over the gate straight on top of Ddog. Both Ddog and Dcat looked shell shocked at this physical interaction and Ddog’s reaction was not to chase. He did not go after cat. Cat is on the table and dog is lying down in bed. Not asleep but not ‘alert’. So they will be in the same room and there is no interaction but if cat suddenly jumped down and trotted across The floor this would make him jump and chase.

Maybe theyll be alright then. Some dogs will chase after a cat that runs, but not one that stands its ground

FFS there is a very small cat outside our house. It tried to come in our garden earlier and the dog kicked off when he saw it
It’s now sitting outside our front door and the dog is going absolutely off. I have tried to shoo this cat off it’s not phased 😭

So hes clearly treating that cat very differently to the cat he knows.

My ddog is a rescue and I have a cat.
Dog chased the cat a few times out of the garden. After a few weeks didn't chase her anymore as she learnt it wasn't approved off.
Cat now (rightly) rules the roost so I can trust them together.
My dog is still a chaser outdoors. However she has caught a few (baby) animals/birds and although she plays with them (like a cat would) I can get them off her no problem and they have (so far) been uninjured and released. So I am more confident she is a chaser but not a killer. When she's chasing something she is deaf to me (I have to walk her off lead away from roads) but once the thing is caught she listens to me and doesn't seem to have any killer instinct.

I don't think the way you describe your dog it sounds like they would know when to stop and I do worry about your cat (even as things are it sounds rubbish for your cat) but I can see why you have rehomed the dog.
I guess a behaviourist assessment will tell you once and for all if your dog can be trained - she might be able to be - so dont give up hope yet.

I think your first priority is training your DC. It's not clear to me if you have more than one but at 15 your DD really should be able to take on board the importance of keeping the dog and cat separate. I have a teenager so understand how scatty they can be but I think you need to keep emphasising the importance of this.

I have 2 DC the other is 17 and he listens to her she is much more responsible and careful.

Neither DC walk dog alone due to his fear aggression of large dogs. On his walk yesterday coming around a corner we bumped into a small cockerpoo and he was absolutely fine. Further down the road he saw a boxer dog and panicked

He definitely knows the difference between our cat and other cats.

They met frequently as puppy/kitten and they would sort of play. Cat would stalk dog and jump out on him (not hissing or growling) dog would bring cat toys. They would sit together with no aggression

When he first came here he wanted to sniff her bum more than anything. He also was bringing her toys a lot. She doesn’t understand what he is doing and just hisses/growls at him. And since it’s become his home, he’s become more and more territorial

Not that I am asking my children to decide but DD15 would want to keep the cat and not the dog
DD17 would want to keep the dog and not the cat

where would he go? He’s way too lively for an older person and he is no good with small kids (stressed not aggressive). I think people would just think he is cute and friendly and then he would end up unhappy in the same situation he was in before, living in someone’s kitchen, not walked. That is what puts me off rehoming him

There is a cat down our street that hates dogs and squares up to them. Ddog was going for a poo on some grass and cat pops it’s head out from under a car and growls at him. Dog did not finish poo and stood on the grass digging his feet backwards in the grass angrily - this is territorial behaviour? I’m not trying to pass it off as territorial I am trying to understand whether it’s predatory. Still no response from the trainers I emailed but it’s the weekend