Please help - night 1, 2 and 3 he cried on and off. Night 4 he cried louder, longer and pooped in his crate...

[Leapoffaith00]

We have an 8 week cockapoo. He was used to being created with his brothers and sisters. He appeared to be ok going in and out of it when he came home, even slept in it for little naps. We have let him play in it. I have a pen for night time with puppy pads. He wasn't even using them on the first few nights as we took him out regularly for a wee and a poop. Then straight away at 5.30am. Settled him at 10.30.
I'm going back to work Monday and my dad is popping in to see him. I'm worried about him crying to the extent of pooping again. He was covered in it and I have completely washed everything in his crate this morning and he has had a bath.
What do I do? I am just clueless to know what to do for the best.

The other thing is of course that a cockerpoo is a very high energy dog. He will need a lot of stimulation and training, and may be very excitable when you come back on your days at work..biting and demanding attention let alone the toilet training. How will that aspect of it work? He won't necessarily be the cuddly companion that greets you when you return but quite a handful for both you and your daughter on her day off. So you have to factor in that aspect of dog ownership...not just the time you leave them but what sort of demands he will make when you come home possibly knackered from your day. Puppies are malleable in one sense but in another they entirely make their own agenda being dogs not humans and whether that will be yours and fit in with your life is to be considered.

Is there no way you could take some leave or work from home for a while while puppy gets settled and trained? I totally appreciate that people have to work and that plenty of people manage to juggle work and a dog, however not many do that successfully with such a young pup. They really do need constant company and supervision at that age, they’re used to being with their mum and litter mates, it’s a big thing for them to suddenly be left alone for hours per day. Could pup maybe stay at your dads whilst you’re working at first?

I hope you don’t take this as an attack. I appreciate you asked for advice on how to avoid him becoming too distressed, my answer is that I just don’t think there’s much chance of avoiding that at this point, especially for a puppy who is already showing signs of not liking to be alone.

i agree that he needs to be with you at nights. This is even more important if you are working. He has been used to being in a family as part of a bigger pack. I think you can always move his bed out and train him out of that later if you need to, but for now, somebody needs to sleep with him

btw I slept downstairs for 3 or 4 weeks. I would have had him upstairs but dh refused to have a dog on our bed Most of my friends do have their dogs on their bed...I found that sleeping with one hand in the door of the crate made him magically settle, but tbh just sleeping next to him was enough if you cannot be bothered with a crate and want to be upstairs.
By six months our dog didn't need a crate, although it was very helpful and he liked it before that. I think if they have a pen or in the room puppy proofed, at least you know that when you are not there they aren't locked in and unable to pee if desperate. even now, I like the fact that if I'm out and my dog is taken short, he doesn't feel worried about making a mess or puddle on the corner of the floor. Not that he ever does but if I was delayed for some reason i know he has that option. Whereas to be stuck in your crate and distressed at having to mess it...well I think that is very pyschologically damaging for a dog.

I think it's incredibly cruel to make him sleep downstairs alone in a crate. Maybe rethink the crate training. They don't like to mess where they sleep so you could end up with a very distressed pup.

We didn't crate train, Ddog slept in his basket upstairs with us for a few months, then basket downstairs and he was fine.

hes old now and sleeps in our bed all the time

Your puppy is showing you he is anxious at being left alone. The answer isn't to leave him alone more and expect him to get over it. You are going to have a very damaged dog, your house will be trashed as he will mess and be destructive through fear, your neighbours will complain because he will bark and howl with distress constantly. Of course lots of people want a dog that doesn't mean that they should have one though. You should have made proper plans for his care and training before you even contemplated getting a dog.

Merely repeating "I have to work" is not an excuse to leave a tiny puppy alone and scared for hours on end in a crate with it's own excrement.

Presumably you knew you would shortly be getting a puppy and could have made arrangements to take annual or unpaid leave.

It sounds as though you have no idea what having a puppy entails and are unwilling to change your lifestyle in any way to accommodate them. I think you should probably make arrangements to have the poor wee thing rehomed urgently. Perhaps ask the breeder if they could take him/her back for you while you arrange this.

I'm hiding this thread now, it's upsetting.

I would bring forward your vaccination and heath check.

Most puppies need a health check within the first few days just in case the vet finds anything - the breeder will then take them back. leaving it to the 24th Nov is complicated for all sorts of reasons but not least because it gives you limited come back to the breeder if something is wrong.

If he doesn't go for his vaccines until then, then he will be missing out on vital socilisation work you should be doing out and about in the real world, right now. This increases the risk of behavioural problems when he is older.

The fact that he is getting more vocal as each night goes on suggests he is getting more distressed. He is learning that being left alone in a crate is the most miserable thing in the world. That's not what you want him to learn so you need to change his experience of the crate by making it less miserable for him. In reality that probably means sleeping beside him - either him upstairs or you camping downstairs. He needs soothing and to know he's not alone. Plus he needs letting out into the garden throughout the night - probably around 2-4 times a night but puppies do vary. Expect that kind of routine to go on for about 4-8 weeks.

He is likely to be deeply distressed by being left alone in the house/crate for the hours you suggest when you go back to work. You need a better solution, unfortunately. It's not just a case of saying 'he'll take longer to housetrain'. It's the risk of deep and serious behavioural issues that should be your biggest concern. Some puppies cope with being left when they are young. Most don't and are unhappy. Some others develop full on seperation issues that reduce the chances they will EVER be able to be left happily.

Unfortunately, puppies need what they need. It's not much good explaining to a puppy that you need to work - they didn't choose to live with you, you chose them. It's you that has to provide what they need, not them that has to behave how you need them to.

Like other posters, I'm also not surprised the poor puppy is upset.

We crate trained from when we got our puppy, but we took it in turns to sleep downstairs on an air bed in the same room as them and set an alarm to take them out for toilet stops and cuddles in the night.

You've got a high energy dog that needs affection and stimulation and they aren't getting that.

Like other posters this isn't a case of "I have to work so it might take longer to house train" and more of a case of "I've got a puppy when I'm not in a position to nurture it appropriately and could end up creating an anxious dog who ends up a nightmare when older, but that's fine because I have to work".

We had to leave our puppy for six hours a day very early on (she was 20 weeks when she came home to us).

Originally we left her in our hall which is a confined space with nothing to chew, quite big about 2m x 5m. It was kind of the same idea as a crate but bigger. We left Food water toys and pads for her. She was fine and slept a lot.

We did originally have her next to our bed at night and she has always slept well. We just tried moving her out last night, she is about 7 months now. She was fine and slept in the hall (her crate equivalent) with no whining or scratching or anything (our room is just off the hall so we would hear).

She now stays outside during the day with her bed, food, water and toys. I think she is still fine just happy to see us when we get home and this makes toilet training easier as she is able to toilet outside while we're out.

We give her lots of attention in the afternoon and evening including a big walk.

We’re five weeks in to having a puppy. For the first three or four weeks he had accidents in the house despite me not working during that time, my husband working from home and my kids being around after school / at weekends and being old enough to let him out regularly. The puppy just can’t hold on that long. So whilst yours might poo because he’s distressed it might also be because he can’t hold on! He’s only 8 weeks old and has only been away from his mum four nights.

Mine does sleep downstairs in a crate but I also have an older dog who is in the same room. Now he’s been with us a bit longer I’m tempted to leave his crate open so he can snuggle with other dog if they want as they spend half the day doing this. He doesn’t really cry in the night often but does seem to wake up and bark when he hears the catflap go or one of us moving around upstairs. Fine if it’s 6am but less fun at 4am.

Our puppy had near constant company during the first two weeks and was only totally alone (without other dog) when I took the older one for a walk. Even then my husband was still upstairs but puppy didn’t know that.

Now he’s been with us five weeks I’m not spending all day in the same room as him and he’s very rarely having any accidents in the house. I’m pretty sure if we’d left him alone in the daytime for two hours or so in the first couple of weeks he’d have been pretty upset. I believe you’re supposed to start with short spells and gradually work your way up to an hour, then two etc. We did leave both dogs together for two hours one evening recently when we went for a meal but as it was late and the clocks had just changed they just slept the whole time as far as we could tell.

I think if possible your dad needs to come round for the vast majority of time you are at work. Otherwise he will be met with a soiled stressed dog and so will you when you get home. Even the most “work orientated” people I know have taken two weeks off work to settle their puppy. A week at home with him just isn’t enough.

I am just clueless to know what to do for the best. Yep I would agree with this

Youi can not leave a puppy alone in a crate for that amount of time and no most people do not do this.

Your health check needs to be very soon after you have the puppy and not in a months time - have they already had one vaccination and you are waiting the 4 week? still need a health check with your vet asap.

What to do? You need to either take time off work or ask you Dad to stay with the puppy all the time you are at work.

How regularly are you waking to toilet pup during the night? Whilst training the 6 dogs we’ve had, we set an alarm for every 2 hours (hubs and I alternate so we each get 4 hours sleep before having to take pup out), it’ll be every hour now though as new pup is still pooing in the crate. Having a puppy is bloody hard work - harder than having 5 kids under 6 ever was imo!

Don’t feel too bad, It’s very easy to underestimate how much work a puppy is. People often say it’s a massive commitment, but if no one takes you step by step through the exact ins and outs (hourly toileting day and night/not being able to take your eyes off them for a moment/constant vet bills/huge expense/clingy puppy syndrome/hours and hours of training to get and keep the basics down/chewed belongings/etc etc etc), then you’re very likely in for a huge shock. What counts here is what you choose to do now you have been specifically told what your puppy needs. You can do it, it’s just a case of recognising that there’s no way to get around the fact your life has to change drastically for a while, and figuring out a way to work around these problems. It’ll all be worth it when you have a well adjusted, healthy and happy doggo.

DH slept downstairs with rookiepup for the first new nights until he was comfortable with us. However I do know some folk who have the dog downstairs in the crate alone from the first night.

I do feel you're leaving your puppy for too long and it's likely to cause long term separation anxiety issues. Could you see if a local dog walker could at least pop in for some of the time until it's a bit older or see on FB or borrowmydoggy if anyone local wants to spend some time with a cute puppy.

I am very surprised that you haven't arranged a vet check and vaccinations until the end of next month. Why so long? You should be doing all that within a week of getting your puppy. You need to get all the vaccinations done ASAP so you can get the pup out and socialised. Don't delay.
Shutting a dog in a crate isn't crate training. This is a baby deprived of his mother and siblings. Of course he will be upset if you shut him in a crate and leave him alone. Giving him company during the night and taking him out for a wee/poo in the middle of the night will probably see him settle much better. He is probably defecating out of fear.
What your puppy needs is constant companionship at this age, this will help him grow up as a confident dog (not guaranteed, but it helps). From what you have said you haven't really got the best set up for bringing up a puppy.

I don’t have a choice are you serious? You chose to get a puppy, you need to step up.

You cannot leave such a tiny puppy alone during the day. You are setting it up to have problems, which you will then decide you cannot deal with.

The puppy is not crate trained. You need to spend a couple of weeks crate training before you shut the door and leave him alone. You also need to sleep next to the puppy and set your alarm clock to wake you up so you can take him outside for toilet.

Why are you waiting so long for a vet visit? You need to get the vaccinations done ASAP and start socialization classes. Even before that you need to carry the puppy around to socialize it. The 14 week socialization window passes really fast and if you miss out on socialization during this period you are creating problems for life.

It’s as if you have set our to do things arse backwards with this puppy and create as many problems as possible. I pity the rescue that will have to pick up the pieces in six months time.

socialisation can just be introducing the puppy to lots of people (within reason) parks in your arms, situations like traffic (in your arms) men with hats, dustbins, paperbags, rubbish trucks, a very kind older dog. It doesn't have to be "classes"
puppy training classes can be helpful but if you get a book like Easy Peasy Puppy it can give pointers too in the meantime. tbh our puppy training class just freaked me out as my dog just got told off all the time...(and i got told off for not understanding the instructions being a bit dyspraxic)

your little girls will be great at helping train the puppy (house training and other training, basic commands etc, like sit and stay and wait and fetch)if you know what it is you are doing,have some idea of puppy development (ie the biting stage) and can give them guidelines, hence the need for some proper book rather than just hearsay - even on mumsnet you are just going to get bits and pieces.

enjoy your puppy, mine is 11 months now and just such a character (poodle in there), naughty at times or shall I say doggy rather than naughty - there has been some hard graft along the way but just having pup in a household CAN be an enjoyable if hairraising experience not the doomladen scenario that everyone seems to present. But it is like kids really, put more in, get more out. Lots of attention and routine and input which can be compatible with other demands in your life but only with some soul searching/thinking out of the box.

Would you leave a newborn baby alone for 6 hours to occupy itself?

There is NO difference.

I don't know why I read these threads, they are too upsetting.

She isn't leaving him for 6 hours. She is leaving him from 8.30 to 10.30 and then 12.30 till 3. twice a week.

I don't think OP will come back.
OP my advice would be to sleep downstairs with the pup for a few weeks, until he gets older and more settled, or buy a smaller crate for your room and have him in there.
Then I'd ask your Dad that instead of just popping in, he can look after DPup all day, take him around with him wherever he goes.
Dpup will poo and wee several times in a 2.5 hr period, he is still a little baby, he can't be left or anxiety will become ingrained and you won't be able to housetrain him for ages.
It's not for ever - if your Dad is able to be in your house for a few hours each day, it can't be too hard for him to have a little puppy with him all day, if it's for the wellbeing of the puppy and the development of a good pet for the future.

Nettleskeins
So it's 4.5 hours alone and all day without their owner. That makes it acceptable then. Stuff the needs of the puppy. As long as it doesn't inconvenience the owner.

There seems to be a lot of threads at the moment on here with owners or prospective dog owners who want a dog/puppy and think it's acceptable to not have appropriate arrangements in place because they need to work / the dog will adapt / we can't afford dog sitters / a walker or relative popping in at lunch will suffice / there's loads of people like us who work and have dogs etc. It's irresponsible and to be honest it's starting to make me wonder what's going on where people are increasingly normalising silly irresponsible ownership.

im not against people who work part time having dogs, but its really tricky to combine with an actual tiny puppy. Most people would at least save up annual leave to settle it in and id hope theyd allow their dogs to sleep near them. Dogs are very social animals and puppies are very very needy. They need so much attention and training. I just dont think this has been thought out.