7 month old retriever being so naughty!!

[Guineapig456]

I’m a previous dog owner and have never had such a naughty dog. He’s well exercised, has company all day both human and dog variety and yet he tests the boundaries every day. He is incessantly greedy, will steal off our plates, stands fully on dining table when we’re not looking to eat anything, if my back is turned he will eat even from a saucepan! Our cats are stressed as he steals their food. In addition, he is “resource guarding” with food, toys, sticks, rubbish and will growl at anyone coming near him. I’ve owned a number of retrievers and have never had this problem, I know they can be greedy but he simply doesn’t seem to care about making us cross. We’ve tried giving him time out, tried rewarding him with titbits if he stops the bad behaviour and obeys our command but it’s all very hit and miss with him. It’s getting to the point where he’s causing so much stress and now me and DCs are becoming very wary of him when he growls. DH simply says we have to speak in a low tone and be firm but that’s easier said than done. We’ve tried putting temptations away but tonight he had food out of a saucepan which was cooling down!! I think he may benefit from an animal behaviourist to show us and the dog the error of our ways but they’re so expensive especially in the approach to Christmas. I’m desperate to know what we can do. We’ve always loved our retrievers but he is so stress inducing.

just realised I got the title wrong Jeam Donaldson'sbook is Culture Clash. Although In Defence of Dogs is excellent too

Absolutely nothing wrong with a dog growling. A growl is a warning that precedes a snap, a lunge and a bite. If you punish the growl out of a dog, what choice do they but to go to the next stage?

If they get told off for growling, they'll escalate to snapping, if they get told off for that, they'll go straight to the bite because they'll have learnt that nothing else works to keep you away.

A growl is a dog saying "I don't like that" or "please stop, I'm unhappy/uncomfortable" - why is that a problem? Dogs shouldn't be expected just tolerate absolutely everything "because they're dogs".

A growl is a dog saying "I don't like that" or "please stop, I'm unhappy/uncomfortable" - why is that a problem?

Because it is basically a threat..?
A warning to back the fuck off immediately before I hurt you and people don't want their pets threatening them?

Sometimes people may well have to do things the dog doesn't like for their safety, like clipping nails, taking away dangerous items etc and I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to be able to do that without being threatened and possibly bitten.

When that growl is happening because of resource guarding it can be a very difficult problem to train out.

You can de sensitise/counter condition and teach swaps but sometimes those dogs will still guard items and/or space.

People often say it's largely about 'management', not leaving items within reach etc but when children are involved I think that becomes very difficult.

You can't rely on children not to drop crumbs, remember not be around when the dog has coveted something etc.

And you have to be mindful of the dog's size, he isn't a chihuahua.
He is of sufficient size and strength to cause serious injury if this behaviour escalates, which it might well.

Because it is basically a threat..? A warning to back the fuck off immediately before I hurt you and people don't want their pets threatening them?

A growl isn't a threat at all - it's a warning that the dog is uncomfortable. Dogs can't talk - how else are they supposed to let you know that they're unhappy with what's happening to them? A threat would be a snap or a lunge - a growl is simply a dog saying they're not comfortable.

Sometimes people may well have to do things the dog doesn't like for their safety, like clipping nails, taking away dangerous items etc and I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to be able to do that without being threatened and possibly bitten.

Then you train your dog appropriately, but some dogs (mostly ex-strays or rescues) may not like being handled, or may not be used to it, in which case you muzzle train them so that they can be handled safely.

I agree that resource guarding is a different ball game but it's also a fairly normal (if undesirable) behaviour. Dog has something they love (like a bone) and someone goes to remove it - the dog feels their precious resource is being taken off them so they growl. OP should absolutely get the help of a behaviourist so this can be dealt with but it's wrong to say that a growling dog is a dangerous dog.

*But should you be getting growled at in the first place?
Not in my opinion. *

Do people really have so little respect for dogs as sentient beings that they deny them the right to show unhappiness or distress?

Go on, try and train your children to never show frustration or anxiety, see how that goes.

Most dogs take so much manhandling and thoughtlessness from humans that I'm glad more of them don't snap. People 30yrs ago were much more pragmatic about dogs. 'If you keep doing that and he bites you, it'll be your own fault', was pretty much the mantra. Many modern dog owners seem to believe that their dogs should be completely passive and take whatever they choose to do to them without complaint. Apparently dogs have no rights and no choices, they may as well be stuffed toys.

If you believe that, you're no dog-lover.

Can you seek out some Victoria Stilwell videos on youtube?

Sounds to me as if the dog is not willing to accept your dominance over him.

Haven’t really got any advice OP but just to say we got a golden retriever pup last year and he was a little bugger, I was really surprised having read how gentle and “great for families” they were. Ours wasn’t a growler or a sneaky food thief though, just a big lumbering monster who thought it hilarious to try and run up and knock you over.

Thank goodness he’s a much more sensible 15 month old now, and a really lovely doggy.

Hope you find someone to help, sounds like a behaviourist would be best.

Sounds to me as if the dog is not willing to accept your dominance over him.

Of all the things it could be this is definately not it. Someone trying to assert "dominance" over this dog is going to make the situation much, much worse.

Agree with @missbattenburg here. If you start down the dangerous (and thoroughly debunked) route of trying to assert dominance then your current problems will pale into the background.

Do people really have so little respect for dogs as sentient beings that they deny them the right to show unhappiness or distress?

Not when it puts people in danger no.

A golden retriever is a big dog, big enough to cause serious, life threatening injury.

Resource guarding can be a difficult problem to treat, some dogs can be completely trained out of it but others are not treatable, they are 'management only'.

Acknowledging that you have a dog big enough to cause you serious harm, that is showing aggression towards you and you being unhappy about that isn't having no respect for dogs.

Its perfectly normal to be wary of an animal showing aggression that is of sufficient size to seriously harm you.

Dogs have many, many ways of showing discomfort well before growling.
Head turns, yawns, whale eye, tucked tails, avoidance etc.
A growl is quite a strong warning/threat.
I wouldn't keep a large dog that felt it acceptable to threaten me because I would not feel safe around that animal.

And growling isn't always absolutely definately a discomfort/fear thing, it can also done by super confident dogs to bully/intimidate.

tried rewarding him with titbits if he stops the bad behaviour

This sticks out to me as you may be inadvertently teaching him to chain his behaviour i.e. sit and beg, give a tit bit from your plate, so will sit and beg waiting for food and if he doesn’t get it, will help himself. It can actually encourage stealing as they will try harder to get the food off your plate.

I would strongly recommend getting a behaviourist as this problem needs an expert eye to help you with timing and also looking at your home set up to prevent the resource guarding. Whereabouts are you?