Should I report this breeder to the RSPCA?

[cavymama]

Hello all. First of all I know I’ve done a list of things wrong with this breeder, I wasn’t anywhere near thorough enough, and honestly after my experience I’ll probably never buy another puppy again.

Also, this is a long one, apologies!

When I was looking for my dog (cavalier KC spaniel) I knew to look for a kennel club dog to ensure the breeder was legitimate, so when I came across a litter that wasn’t KC registered but the breeder assured us she could register the puppy we wanted for an extra £300, we thought that was fine. The total we paid for him was £1300, and he was sent home with a vaccination/worming/fleaing record. She told us she’d send his kennel club papers in a few weeks when she got them.

The second we got him home he had diarrhoea in our garden. When it hadn’t stopped after a few days we took him to the vet for a stool sample test, and it turns out he has SIX different infections (4 parasites and 2 bacterial). All the time we’d been texting the breeder worried and she’d been assuring us he just had a nervous tummy. The vet has told us it’s really unusual to see this many things come back positive from a stool sample.

We’ve treated the roundworm, he’s on antibiotics for his giardia, and we’re going to the vet later today to pick up the next round of medication for his campylobacter. The diarrhoea hasn’t stopped yet, it’s been 2 weeks constant of that now, and I’m really worried about my dog. It’s also been incredibly draining to spend 2 weeks constantly cleaning up diarrhoea at all hours of the night and day.

So far in tests and meds we’ve spent £350, as his insurance hasn’t kicked in yet. The vet has warned us that because he’s had all these ‘preexisting conditions’ insurance might become more expensive in the future.

On top of all that, my fiancé has contracted the dog’s cryptosporidium and has been very ill stuck in the bathroom for the last few days.

I’m starting to wonder that these kennel club papers aren’t coming and that she was lying about them, and that she was lying about his mum’s heart testing too.

I haven’t confronted the breeder about all of this yet, I don’t want to go in all guns blazing as I still need to get the kennel club papers off her, but I really think it’s appropriate that she pays our vet bills, given that she sent him home to us ill. I’m also thinking that she should probably be reported to the kennel club and/or RSPCA.

What do I message her? The last texts were her telling us his diarrhoea was nervous stomach and not to worry. How do I approach this?

Not a naturally suspicious person? But a ridiculously high number of pups sold are from puppy farmers. You SHOULD be suspicious.
She didn’t rush you to part with your cash? Probably has the money from the last litter still in her pocket.
Full refund in a week? A good breeder will stipulate that you must contact them if you need to rehome. For the WHOLE of the dog’s life. This just reads like you can have your money back if it dies in a day or two.
Recommended by a friend? So not anyone who knows about the breed or breeding?
I can’t be bothered to list all the points but you seem to think that KC reg actually stands for something or gives a level of protection. It really doesn’t.
This is a money making operation. I’m also very concerned that the parents may not be healthy and the pup may end up inheriting some of the bloody awful conditions the breed is prone to. I bet the breeder didn’t mention those health problems.

As someone who has been duped by a puppy farm for our dog, I think they can be very convincing when it comes to the homely, family set up.
I don't have any advice OP but I hope your pup is ok and gets over his illnesses. If it were me, I'd take the hit, learn from it and move on.

@Wolfiefan she did say that she could take him back at any point in his life, just that the refund would only be the first week.

Yes, she did discuss with us the conditions cavaliers could get and what to look out for, but we already new that.

When I say not a naturally suspicious person, what I mean is that when someone shows me a document of proof I don’t immediately accuse them of forging it. Maybe you live your life like that, I don’t know.

And that wasn’t a list of what KC means, it was just a list of all the things I thought to check personally on the day, and the reasons it’s clear to me it wasn’t a puppy farm. I’m aware that KC registration isn’t a magic wand, which is why I was reassured by meeting the dogs and seeing their home.

But I don’t really know why I’m replying to your post when you ‘can’t be bothered’ to read mine before responding to it with a load of false assumptions.

Check this out OP. Nobody here can tell you but let's be honest- of course they want it to look convincing. They're not going to sell you a pup from the actual factory, or nobody would buy would they?

www.pdsa.org.uk/taking-care-of-your-pet/looking-after-your-pet/puppies-dogs/could-you-spot-a-puppy-farm

I did read it. I just couldn’t be bothered to scroll back up and answer each point. So she mentioned heart problems. So you have proof the parents were clear? Syringomyelia (sp?)
Something stupid like 4/5 pups are suspected of coming from disreputable breeders. So yes. I would be suspicious. Very.
I would never buy a pup from someone I didn’t know personally as a breeder or had been recommended by an expert in the breed or the breed club.
Not sure what you want people to say. Perhaps a Daily Fail sad face is in order? You bought a pup from a crappy breeder. Meeting the “mum” dog didn’t prevent that.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Must be heartbreaking. Has the vet said how it will affect your puppy's lifespan? As then you will be set for more heartbreak. Perhaps going to a solicitor for advice would help? Or citizens advice bureau?

@SweetJasmine17 I did read that article, and lots of others about how to spot puppy farms, before I went and viewed the pups. That’s why I was reassured by what I saw at the breeders house. None of the red flags listed in that article or others were present. I know that isn’t a guarantee, but I knew what to look out for and nothing rang alarm bells.

@blamangeme the vet hasn’t said anything about the puppy’s life span, just that he’ll need 7 days of antibiotics, which we’ve started. Nothing he has is something that’ll affect him long term.

@wolfiefan you already saw on the last page the long list of reasons I have to not suspect puppy farming. I suppose I could tell you the breeder’s shown me evidence of heart testing but you’ll probably say it was forged or that it was from the ‘fake mother’ because you’ve already made your mind up.

But those reasons are mostly unsound. I’m not sure what you want from this thread. Breeder is disreputable. But you have the pup now.

@wolfiefan those reasons are mostly unsound? They’re exactly what you’re told to check in all the articles I’ve seen about puppy farms. But I guess you know better than the people in the RSPCA and PDSA who wrote those lists What I wanted from the thread was advice on what to do next, which I did get from a couple people.

Not an awful lot you can do really. The point is to do the research before. You haven’t. Or you would realise that recommended by a friend, multiple litters and KC reg aren’t all plus points.

No point in having a go at the OP, what's done is done and she is doing her best to rectify the situation.

I do know quite a bit about this OP my advice would be to contact your local Trading Standards/Local Authority as they'll need to be licensed and if you have an idea of the number of litters they're producing a year, send the details to HMRC. It's always worth reporting to the RSPCA, just because you don't immediately see them knocking on someone's door doesn't mean they do nothing.

RSPCA won’t be interested. They really won’t. I’m just not sure what the OP wants from this. They maintain it isn’t a puppy farmer but also want to report them.
HMRC May be interested. Puppy farming is big business and the bastards certainly don’t pay tax.

Certainly report to the RSPCA - not in the expectation that they take immediate action, but because you have been sold a sick puppy and there will be more where he came from.

More importantly, go through all the agencies on this list and report again.

Try not to feel attacked, OP but if this was a legitimate breeder they would be genuinely horrified that your puppy was sick, and this is clearly not the case.

There is a whole other thread on here about why a pedigree pup may not be registered, and it is nothing to do with cost.

@Cheesesteak I appreciate the advice, I’ll make a note, thank you.

@Wolfiefan I wanted to report them for carelessness, which is not the same as puppy farming but still worth reporting. Like I said the place was very rural with other animals nearby, which is where the vet thinks the bugs have come from. The vet kept going on about how sheep carry all sorts. I’m not sure about the RSPCA now, I was just imagining the breeder going into her kitchen with muddy wellies, letting the cat in, letting the puppies wander round her garden with the pond and the farms nearby, and wanted to do something about it. I still haven’t decided what I’m going to do.

@fivedogstofeed I haven’t told her yet I’m trying to figure out a way to encourage her to check her other dogs without making her defensive.

You haven’t even contacted the breeder? Why on Earth not?
Carelessness isn’t an offence. But then that’s not what happened here.

The last litter of foster puppies I had came with giardia. I literally picked them up out of a field of sheep, so this was understandable. They were also unwanted puppies, an 'accidental ' litter from a working farm dog. They roamed free, fed intermittently, lived outside.
The difference here is that you paid over £1000 to someone for a puppy - do you not think they should have taken a bit more care?! Who lets tiny puppies wander around a farm picking up bugs ffs?

@wolfiefan It’s been less than 12 hours since I got the rest of the puppy’s results back, we thought it was just basically 2 common things he had till then. Because I didn’t know how best to tackle it, I’ve been trying to figure out what to do while waiting on the message back about the mum’s KC and looking after a small puppy. I was also hoping for some advice on here about what to say to her/how to bring it up. Anyway I’ve sent it now, which she probably won’t see till the morning.

@fivedogstofeed my thoughts exactly! This is the point of my thread. I didn’t know she was letting them roam about but she must have done given what the pup has.

OP I feel sorry for you it’s easy to be clever in retrospect. We have always had pedigree dogs and my biggest fear has always that we were buying from puppy farms posing as reputable breeders my neighbour bought a westie from a similiar set up to the one you describe when she took it to have it vaccination the vet asked if she’d bought it from a puppy farm she immediately and slightly indignantly replied no he then pointed out that it said on the KC registration documents that the dog had been bred by X breeder in Wales she had viewed the puppy at the “breeders” lovely clean home with children etc in Somerset! Puppy farmers do lots of tricks to look reputable. To negate this we’ve always gone through the specific breed club (although in their small print they don’t recommend a breeder), if you’re feeling brave you could contact them and ask if they know of this breeder. But for me the give away was asking a lot more a lot more for a KC registered pup as KC registration for their puppies is standard stuff for reputable breeders. £1300 seems a lot for a cavalier is that the standard price? Mine cost £800 and his parents are crufts champions including best in group as are two siblings from the same litter.
When we bought our current dog I contacted the breed society the secretary provided me with the names of five breeders she knew who were planning or expecting litters that year and the average cost must breeders charged for a puppy. I contacted one breeder and she was waiting for a litter I had to complete a very extensive questionnaire and as we were 400 miles away send photos of my house and garden. She then rang me and went through my answers very carefully and asked why I wanted this particular breed. She clearly expected me to have done my homework about the breed and too ask questions. I was then added to her list of potential buyers for her puppies although she made it clear that this didn’t mean she’d sell me one. When the pups were born I was sent a photo then a four weeks invited to meet mum the breeder and the pups. Again I was clearly told that this didn’t mean she’d sell me one or that I had to buy one we both had 48 hours to think about it. I had by then extensively googled the breeder using her name and adding words like review puppy farm etc into my search I found a couple of positive comments, lots on the breed club website, her show ring successes the breeder had also written a book about the breed and was a senior judge. Also when I met her it was obvious that the breeder clearly lived for and loved the breed she had been breeding for years and had pioneered a particular health screen for the breed (this is why there was lots of stuff about her on the breed club website). It’s awful that we have to be so suspicious all most of us want is to offer a healthy puppy well bred puppy a good home.
Secondly as said above no reputable breeder would allow small puppies to wander around a farm the risk of picking up an illness is very high as you now realise.
I will be very interested to see what the breeder says. I hope you will update us. We bought a pedigree dog years ago it turned out to have a non serious congenital condition that didn’t show up till 6 months (not her fault) I was advised by the vet to inform her he said she’d want to know so that she wouldn’t use the stud dog again (it wasn’t hers). She did very much want to know was very apologetic instantly offered to take the dog back and return my money or give me first choice of a puppy from the next litter. We loved the dog and he was healthy he was a pet so declined she then offered to pay the vets bills that would arise from the necessary surgery to correct the problem and if we ever wanted another puppy from her to reduce the cost by 50% as she’d sold us a puppy that didn’t meet the breed standard. The response of your breeder may I suspect answer the question as to whether or not this was a well disguised puppy farm. I hope you puppy gets better I understand cavaliers gave lots of health problems if this breeder is reputable perhaps ask to have copies of any health screens/checks that have been done on the parents and show them to you ver to see what he thinks.

Another thought all our pedigree digs have been registered with the KC but not for breeding only or pet only or some similiar wording only the breeder can change this. I understand. that this is is also standard stuff if your buying from reputable breeder.

Dogs not digs!

Yep tired. It’s called an endorsement.

Thanks wolfie that’s the word I was looking for the brain wasn’t being very helpful this morning.

I know because my girl has several! The breeder would consider revoking them but we would need to have a discussion about it. She’s just trying to protect her line and her puppies. (No chance I want it revoked. I’m not a breeder!)

I believe it’s standard stuff with reputable breeders is that right? I understood it was about protecting “lines” and also ensuring that any future pupils are only bred by repeatable dedicated breeders who have the best interest of the individual dog and the breed at heart.

I feel that £1300 for a KC registered cavalier is a lot of money but maybe that’s the going rate?
I know that some breeds are more expensive than others but I was t aware that cavaliers were particularly expensive.