Rough collie or dalmatian - views please!

[Cloudtree]

Right we might be taking the plunge and getting a puppy. This is the first time we've had a dog although DH always had dogs growing up.

I have two DSs 14 and 12. Two cats who have been with us for 8 years since they were kittens. 5 free ranging chickens...(I'm aware this could be an issue)

House is large and we have 5 acres of garden/woodland. I am a little concerned since it effectively isn't fenced off at the bottom of the wood. It has a post and wire fence only in that area, but it only backs onto unused woodland belonging to an absent neighbour.

I must admit I like my house to look nice and am a bit worried about it getting trashed. I am home a lot though since I work from home so hopefully that minimises the chance of a puppy going bonkers/getting bored and ruining the place.

Any thoughts on which might be a better fit for us. I like rough collies. DS2 favours a border collie although we have explained that they are generally happier when they are working. DH wants a husky which is obviously out of the question given the other animals. DS1 doesn't really mind.

I have spotted a beautiful dalmatian puppy and a litter of rough collies..

Rough/smooth collies are not working dogs.

They no longer have any appreciable work ability and are known for their placid, calm, easy going temperaments.

They are a good choice for a first dog as long as you can maintain the coat.

We have a rough collie in London. She doesn't need masses of exercise and she's great to be with. Loyal and fabulous company. Recommended. Rough collie every time

What about a cat.

No dog should be put in the position where it can trash your house, but you should be aware of the incidental things that happen, from muddy or fox poo covered dogs, to hair everywhere (if you've got a shedding breed), to occasional poo accidents from an unwell dog, vomiting similarly etc. And of course a puppy is a continual clean up job for a while, because however quick they are to house train, there will certainly be accidents. If you are so house proud that all this would be a problem, you may need to think again.
Dalmatians shed like mad, you will have white hair everywhere. We had a jrt for years, and they are notorious for shedding (the smooth coated ones). He has been dead for 2 and a half years and I still find the odd hair from him. One reason we opted for a poodle this time.

After this thread I think we might go for a stick insect..

I would have to recommend a Sheltie😁.

Easy to train and they love to please, as stated above they do like to sleep as well. I have had 5, only one at a time and have all had different personalities but all made amazing pets.

Good luck

I'm not ridiculously house proud, but we have just got the the stage in life where the house is looking nicer. It has been factored in though. We have a cleaner twice a week and a roomba and I have two teenage slaves children to help

In all seriousness we already have cats so are used to pet hair and disgusting things (they like to munch on the heads of squirrels and leave the innards for us), the chickens wander into the hallway since all of our doors are always wide open all day every day and we live in a wood plus I garden a lot so there is already mud in our lives. I'm not bothered about that side of things. In all honesty I would be a bit upset if the furniture got trashed since I'm not good at decision making and its taken 20 years to find stuff I like and fill the house. But we are very fortunate that we are in a financial position where we can replace things if we had to. They're just things.

I thought I did answer the question about the rough collie puppies. I have been liaising with a breeder through the KC website. I've also been looking at others on the Collielife website (if anyone now swoops in and pinches my puppy I'll be cross )

Missed that, sorry. Be aware that anyone can advertise on the KC website - plenty of puppy farmers on there.

Make sure both parents are health tested, hips, eyes etc. Make sure the puppies are endorsed. Those should be the main two criteria.

I'd still be very wary of a breeder that has puppies available straight away. If they were worth their weight, they'd have waiting lists and pups would be desirable.

I can't wait to see this thread updated with a picture of the new puppy.
They are the cutest babies 😍

@Cloudtree I’m not surprised you’re considering getting a stick insect instead. Although our two didn’t survive long

I just read the whole of this thread and feel weary. The negativity about most types of dogs and puppies in general is draining. I’m sure why some can’t give you the benefit of the doubt. And I do laugh at the idea that most “proper” good breeders don’t do it for profit. I can see it being true for working dogs but the rest? Do you really believe that making a profit, however small, isn’t a relevant factor? Come on.

I agree duchessdarty it is draining and imo a lot of the information is completely false.

Examples:

'Working variants need massive amounts of stimulation, bad pets, need to work etc'
Um, no.
Ask actual owners of working bred dogs and a lot will tell you that they are much loved pets, calm in the house and actually too much exercise/training makes them unpleasant to handle.

'If your dog is badly behaved it needs more exercise'
Again, no, more exercise = fitter dog.
What they need is to learn to calm down and be bored.

'If the dog is badly behaved it is A) your fault and B) fixable with positive training'
No it ain't.
A dogs temperament is genetic.
A nervy neurotic dog will always be a nervy neurotic dog and a bolshy, bullying, dominant dog will always be a bolshy, bullying, dominant dog.
And some dogs dont respond to positive only training despite what some want to believe.

'The breed club is the best place for a puppy'
The breed clubs that are almost exclusively voluntarily run by owners and breeders you mean?
The same clubs that have deliberately selected for health problems like sloping GSD backs and droopy St. Bernard eyes causing entropion and flat faces in pugs that result in BOAS...?
The same clubs that vehemently refuse to improve the health of their so called beloved breeds?

'No decent breeder advertises on pets4homes'
Well actually, a huge proportion of them do!
There are huge numbers of ads from breeders that give prospective owners a grilling, that expect to meet beforehand, that sell their pups with endorsements, that health test and have the papers to prove it, that will take a puppy back at any point etc etc.

'No good breeder would have pups available straightaway'
Yes they do!!!
When me and DH were toying with the idea of adding a second dog we called 8 breeders of the breed (not a terribly common breed either) we were thinking about, all registered and health tested and each and every one of them said we don't have/operate a waiting list, our next litter is planned for x date contact us then.
We actually ended up feeling like complete and utter idiots for assuming there would be a list in the first place.

'A family hobby breeder is always an awful, cruel puppy farmer'
Sometimes puppy farms use fake bitches and family homes as a front but often, a family genuinely did just breed their healthy, friendly much loved family pet to someone else's healthy, friendly, much loved family pet and brought up a litter of puppies in the home, around home noises and children and other pets and quite often those puppies grow into really nice, friendly, stable adult family pets.
Exactly as they were intended to.
Hobby breeders are not necessarily the devil.

And when posters complain that the hobby breeder may not health test fully, if at all I would like to point out that first of all the only reason why pedigrees are so unhealthy is because of the stupid decision to close the books and not allow outcross anymore and there is not a breed single club nor the kennel club who insist that a breeder do every single genetic test available for their breed.

Health problems, some of them very serious, are rife in top show winning dogs.
Remember the syringomelia cavaliers that were deliberately bred because they had great confirmation and won titles?

The Kennel Club have just a tiny handful of required tests like hip screens that breeders are required to do and even then, it's only 'assured' breeders.

And I also agree that breeders absolutely are in part in it for the money and/or the prizes for sports, showing etc.

TBH, as long as the dogs are well cared for, healthy and have nice stable, friendly temperaments I couldn't give a shiny shit whether the breeder is making a profit or not.

Well this fella arrived today. He's been perfect so far. He can blot his copy book tomorrow

Fucksandflowers I think it’s clear which of us work with dogs and which don’t

FucksandFlowers - it really doesn't sound like you know anything about dogs or dog breeding to be honest.

Please, please, if anyone is reading this thread and considering buying a puppy, talk to some actual doggy people at shows, breed events etc. T he nonsense above about Pets4Homes is dangerous.

If you are worried about the house and never had a dog before, then a puppy might not be the best choice. Have you considered adopting an adult dog?
You can do it via a rehoming agency so that they can match the dog to your needs and it will even give you a safety net if things turn out poorly.

That's fine we are all entitled to our opinion though most owners, certainly the ones I've met and the majority on here of working line dogs have them as pets, say they tend to be calm in the house and that too much exercise overstimulates them.

Many trainers and behaviourists recognise the importance of teaching an off switch/how to calm themselves and anyone who has tried to wear out a dog with exercise will be familiar with how they get accustomed to it and need more and more as fitness increases.

The next point I made is controversial I know.
But there is quite a bit of evidence to suggest temperament is largely inherited.
And on positive only training working for every dog.
Well, I'm not going to enter a debate on that but it isn't exactly unheard of for behaviourists to claim the dog is too damaged, there is nothing to be done after extensive work and the dog to be PTS without trying another (non positive) option first.

Breed clubs and the kennel club are the devil.
No one is ever going to change my view on that one.
Pedigrees are in a terrible state.
The breed clubs/kennel club aren't interested in what is the best for the dog.

Breeders who do all I described, which according to mumsnet are all markers of excellent breeders absolutely 100% advertise on pets4homes.
You can see it with your own eyes!
Don't need my word for it.

On the waiting list.
That was my genuine experience.
Me and DH enquired and ended up feeling really stupid.
Literally no one had or operated a waiting list.
It was not a massively popular breed so it wasn't a case of a handful of breeders outside the norm.

Stand by my comments about hobby breeders.
Most people when looking for a pet dog want a friendly, healthy, stable dog.
Hobby breeders often produce that very successfully.
Yes it can be a fake set up by puppy farmers, but not always.

It is true that no breed club insists on a breeder doing absolutely every single health test available for their breed.
They recommend the bare minimum, not enforce, recommend.

It's true that there are some very serious problems amongst very successful show dogs and pure breds in general.

The bit about profit is just my personal view.

Actually I have seen litters advertised on pets4homes that are from 'proper' breeders. Have had several dogs advertised there, one exemplary breeder, one not so but not puppy farmer and one re-home which may have been from a puppy farmer (was more naive then).
Point is you have to check them out and make your own decisions.

Oh my word MsMarvellous what a gorgeous pup!

@Towelsareblue he is rather

MsMarvellous, he looks absolutely gorgeous. He is going to melt a lot of hearts I can see 😍😍😍

I am definitely biased. Our Dalmatian happened to us rather than being a conscious choice.
Positives are that he is loyal, quirky, handsome, big personality, gentle and bright. He learns quickly. He travels well. He is affectionate and loving. He likes company and is a brilliant guard dog.
Negatives. He dislikes children, he moulds everywhere constantly; it’s known as Dally Glitter and there is no respite. He needs lots of exercise- he does roughly fifteen miles a day but would want more. If Dallys don’t get exercise they can be destructive and he’s a very big dog. He is expensive in terms of food and insurance despite being very healthy as he is accident prone. He can hear a pin drop at six miles. He is a thief and will eat anything. He is clingy and dislikes being left alone.

@Fucksandflowers I have to say I agree with you about hobby breeders. A good hobby breeder - with a healthy and temperamentally sound bitch who finds a health-tested and sound stud, and thinks about things like COI, and asks sensible questions of future owners - is perfectly capable of producing dogs who will make good, solid household pets (or working dogs, if that's their aim). Loads better than a puppy farm, a lot better than a high-volume kennel, and also better than a leading member of the breed club who produces a litter with a COI of 30% because they're desperate to get just the right ear set...

Regarding over-stimulation, I've heard a well-respected trainer of working dogs say he had the owner of a manic dog come for advice. Dog was getting 2hr+ of exercise a day. Trainer cut it all back to 1 or 2 twenty minute training sessions. 'Like a different dog', he said.

And now and then a really good breeder will end up with litters close together. Someone I know had two litters less than 6 weeks apart last year. She is an outstanding breeder who health tests, works and trials her dogs.

What a dangerous thread for potential puppy buyers. Dangerous indeed.