Pros and cons of raw food?

[Pringle89]

Just interested in people’s opinions and what raw food/brand do you feed? Our puppy is 5 mths and seems to have a sensitive stomach regardless of what food he’s fed (only natural high meat content food)

We have two kids and I worry about the possible transfer or bacteria from raw food?

[missbattenburg]

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1863-2378.2008.01145.x

[missbattenburg]

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3003575/

[missbattenburg]

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/zph.12062

[missbattenburg]

avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.228.4.537

[missbattenburg]

avmajournals.avma.org/doi/full/10.2460/javma.243.11.1549

[Wolfiefan]

I feed raw.
I have two kids (well past crawling stage!) and am immunosuppressed because of medication.
I’ve never had any problems.
Washing hands and bowls and storing food carefully are necessary.
I also avoid letting my dog lick me round my mouth and wash her beard as necessary.

[StopMakingAFoolOutofMe]

After looking at all those articles, some refer to commercial raw diets, some to cats and one makes no sense whatsoever.

You do realise that most people who feed raw properly feed human grade and prepared meat, meaning that you are at the same risk of contracting salmonella as if you make a curry.

Salmonella doesn't really affect dogs. The enzymes in their stomachs can kill it if it is present, which is quite unlikely.

Those studies are ridiculously small samples and therefore can't really be used to guarantee anything.

The "shedding" is never explained properly.

[missbattenburg]

I literally just talked about bacterial shedding - a well acknowledged and studied process, much like breathing or eating. I am sorry if you haven't come across shedding before but saying it is tosh is like saying the sky is not blue or grass green. Shedding is never explained in detail in the studies because it is that fundamental a subject. Similarly a study on breathing wouldn't bother to explain breathing. It would just assume anyone reading a study on breathing would know what breathing was.

I didn't tell you all that raw feeding is wrong because I don't believe that. In fact, I've done pretty much everything I can to say I don't think that. I have said over and over again that it is for people to learn and make their own decisions. I am genuinely not sure what else I could have done to put forward a polite and respectful bit of information.

I really wish I hadn't bothered because somehow I have been asked over and over again to defend what is a basic biologic process. I suspect people have tried to push me into some anti-raw pigeon hole they pre-decided I belong in. I am not against feeding raw. But while we're banding about qualifications, the reason I had so many studies to hand is because I just finished my canine science and nutrition module of a degree in canine behaviour. Yes, of course there are problems with those studies. There are problems with every single scientific study because not study is perfect. You asked for studies, I gave them.

I might challenge you back and ask for scientific proof in support of the safety of raw but to do so will further convince you I am somehow trying to persuade people away from raw feeding and am 'on the other side'. I am not. It's not for me to "realise" anything about eating curry because I am not against raw feeding.

This thread has become farcical, like I am somehow attacking your belief that raw is best for your dogs. I am not.

[pitterpatterbaby]

We have a Dobermann with a very sensitive tummy. Any biscuit/complete food he just can't tolerate. Switched him to raw and he's perfect. I keep the meat in the fridge (covered) and make sure it is fresh and there have been no problems. Their digestive systems are designed for this diet not the processed food you buy in supermarkets!

[missbattenburg]

wolfie as it happens I am also immuno-compromised as a result of having my spleen removed as a child. That didn't stop me feeding raw, either.

Though I chuckled a bit because I first read your post as you having washed around your beard!

[Wolfiefan]

Haha. I pluck mine and wash hers batten. She hates it though. Just finished a beard wash and she’s traumatised. I swear she thinks I’m waterboarding her.

[Pringle89]

Thank you for all your replies! Still a bit confused at to what would be best tbh! Anyone feed Millie’s wolf heart - seems like a good compromise as 80% meat and no grain/added crap - but it’s cooked?

[BiteyShark]

I have fed Millie's wolfheart and can recommend it and lots of people on here feed it to their dogs.

My dog has a life long stomach condition so we found the wet was better for him than the kibble. I love their training treats as well.

[Pringle89]

Thanks @biteyshark, he’s currently on wainwright’s wet which is 70% meat but does have 4% rice so wondering if going grain free might help? Kibble made him fart all day long and had the worst runny poops so that’s a no go!

[Smotheroffive]

Rice is a better bet, but you can buy rice in bulk very cheaply and its a far better tummy soother than the highly processed muck. It's actually helpful for lining inflamed membranes.

Batten I was referring to bums on sofa! , like on the tube (I'd assumed you'd meant bum crack germs on the tube seat

Bacteria is all about environment, and many courses are sponsored by highly profitable highly processed animal food producers. They are over priced and not good for supporting the animals natural bio processes. Ddogs are only here still with us as a result of evolving without these products. It is only in recent times we have this highly processed garbage, and at a time we are trying to be processed averse in human consumption the same applies to animals. They need the enzymes on foods and being continually fed the same diet (complete balanced) does cause imbalances and illness.

Cooking food destroys the benefits of enzymes and natural constituent parts of meat. For instance cooking beef and links to carcinogenic properties leading to bowel cancer.

Lots of vets absolutely do recommend it, more and more vets are also aware that the industry has been grossly over-vaccinating, etc.

[Smotheroffive]

Years ago dcats were,by the age of 7/8 starting to suffer serious gum disease and tooth decay as a result of feeding exactly the food that recommended to keep their teeth 'clean', and ending up having them removed. I now have dcats approaching twenty with sparkly white teeth who eat raw meaty bones daily (and no ill effects from the taurine issue - fighting fit, comments on how young they look and love it when they flash their pearly whites!).

Same as pp,never seen the inside of vets until one got hit by a car, even then wrong diagnosis.
Another time ddog bitten by an adder, puffed up like a balloon emergency drip.

But no illnesses. They are none of them overfed I can feel ribs on them all easily.

[Smotheroffive]

At times I buy the highest quality 'crap' I can find, and pay a fortune for the privilege for convenience, and the same day (within 24 hours) I notice the bad breath and the poo is absolutely foul and gaggy!

[StopMakingAFoolOutofMe]

Please don't feed rice to a dog.

[Smotheroffive]

Please don't feed rice to a dog

Please can you expand on that a little, stopmaking ?

[pitterpatterbaby]

Our vet told us to feed rice post op?

[Smotheroffive]

Yeah, its been widely used in sickness to ease digestive issues, easily absorbed etc. Hence don't know what it that means.

[nellieellie]

Raw food is great. As long as you use good hygiene it does not present a real risk. There are great Facebook pages like Raw Feeding Advice and Support, or Barf U.K. or Rawsome and Holistic. I started both mine on Nutriment - google stockists, Ocado also stock it. This is a minced raw complete with veg in. There are stockists who do all meat completes - I now use mainly paleo ridge and The Dogs Butcher, But I get the meat from the stockists and balance it myself - eg beef chunks, chicken chunks, chicken wings or lamb ribs and offal. Loads of advice on specifics and lists of suppliers on Feb.
It’s important that it’s balanced which is why starting on a minced “complete” is easiest.
Advantages: healthy dogs, excellent immunity, gut bacteria. Able to deal with bacteria better therefore less susceptible to stomach issues. Good skin - no itching or rashes. Beautiful shiny coats. Minimal doggy smell. Small poops, minimal smell. About a half to a quarter of the poop you get on kibble. Alertness and focus improved.
Disadvantages: need freezer space, if you DIY as opposed to use completes it takes more time as you need to weigh stuff to get % right. Can be a hassle on holiday.
As for vets not recommending it. Well, some do. There is a raw feeding vet group - it’s growing. My vet is not opposed but like others stocks Royal Canin - makes a lot of money out of it. Go figure. My view? How on earth can a highly processed food which involves heating to extreme high temperatures so that all enzymes, vitamins are removed, then having to add in artificial vitamins/enzymes/amino acids - be better than fresh food?

[SwearyInn]

@missbattenburg

You are the kind of poster of which MN needs far more.

You made a very reasonable opening position

You ignored the hysterics

Then you provided the evidence when requested.

Thank you. Please post on every thread.

[Smotheroffive]

Not sure about your post on here though... Something to contribute to the raw feeding debate?

[Smotheroffive]

Or did you NC batten