I need cold hard facts please

[bigpawsnopaws]

We have been seriously considering a dog for the last year. me and DS very keen, DH will go with the flow.
I'm at home 4 days a week, i work 3 days x 8 hours, DH off every other fri/Mon
DD live 5 mins away and is happy to help...
we have an elderly cat.
DS would love a Labrador.
Are we mad? should we consider a puppy or older dog.
Honest views please....

@MsSquirrel
Some dogs take that long to be toilet trained reliably and so can’t be left. It was months before I could leave my dog at all. Modern advice is never leave any dog longer than it’s happy with. An hour for a little pup is too long and 6 hours without access to toilet isn’t ok.
OP you say the dog will be DS’s. But he works so you will look after it? What happens if he moves out? Who is home for the dog then? What if he meets someone who is allergic to dogs? Wants to travel abroad or moves into a property where he can’t have a dog?
I wouldn’t. If he wants a dog that’s up to him but he needs to move out and do it when he’s settled.
If you want a dog that’s different.

@Wolfiefan

Sorry, I meant after a month of having your puppy, so around 3 months old. If you're consistent a puppy can easily be house trained in a few weeks (with the odd accident) although obviously depends on the breed.

After 4-8 weeks imo your pup should be going outside to toilet then should be able to be left for up to an hour with no accidents.

All my labs have been fine with the cats after they’ve got used to them. The cats eat and sleep in the utility, away from the dogs, and we have a stair gate so the cats can go upstairs but the dogs can’t.

@Wolfiefan

Re the 6 hours without access to toilet not being ok, so do you let your dogs out overnight?

I personally don't usually leave my dog for much over 3 hours but he has been left for 6 before (unplanned and unavoidable) and he was fine.

@MsSquirrel
Hormones suppress urine production in adult dogs so yes I do leave mine overnight. It is bad advice to tell someone their dog will be ok for 6 hours.

@Wolfiefan

I actually stated you shouldn't regularly leave a dog for that long. However I do think it's far better to have a dog who is able to be left alone for a few hours (or occasionally a bit longer) than to be unable to leave them at all.

It's bad advice to say a puppy should not be left alone at all as then you are really going to struggle when you do have to leave them as they will likely have separation anxiety.

We adopted a rescue a year ago. It was a big decision, and we adore him, but it is a HUGE life change.

1. walking. we only took him on when I was prepared to do the walking, as realistically in the winter the only one in during daylight hours is me.

I walk 1.5 hours in the morning and dh walks him 40 minutes every evening. He can just go without the evening if necessary. It is a MASSIVE committment. Rain, snow, cold and damp, burning hot sun, ill or well, massively busy at work or not, every day I have to go out. The other side of that is that I have loved doing the walking, got back in touch with seasons, enjoyed the fresh air, walking is instead of a gym membership. I also have amazing walks from my house, so from the end of my road, in a very ordinary town, I am on footpath, cycle paths and have access to woods and a nature reserve. It would be much harder in a town without that.

We can't just go out for the day, we can't just decide to go to my brother's for Christmas, without asking if the dog can come, and sorting that out.
Dog is lovely, and very well behaved, but we have to constantly think about the dog before we plan anything.

He is destroying the lawn too, and we have a good sized garden.
He has ear problems, which have cost a lot (pre existing condition, so insurance doesn't pay)

It took me 4 months to teach him to walk on a lead, and before that it was bloody hard work, and kids couldn't walk him, I still do training with him several times a week.

and the hair..............
Oh dear really, the hair..............

As to the cat. We have a 9 year old cat, who has done a great job of ignoring all visiting dogs quite happily, but our dog began by chasing him. We separated dog and cat, cat has upstairs (and our bed) dog has downstairs, apart form ds bed. There was stalemate for about 6 months, but dog learnt not to actually chase the cat. After the summer, the cat obviously decided he wanted his place by the fire back and stood his ground and wacked the dog round the face. They now tolerate each other well, and both go everywhere. We did put a cat flap in the utility room door, so that dog can't get in and cat has a safe place plus his food.

Get the absolute best insurance you can and factor in paying £££ for it. DDog has just been diagnosed with diabetes, we thankfully have for life cover but he has cost £3k since end December. Insurance covers most but you still have to have the ability to pay up front.

He needs insulin injection every 12 hours, spontaneity that was just coming back as the kids have got older is gone.

I wouldn't change him for the world but be prepared for what it can mean.

@MsSquirrel old and bad advice. Current thinking is that leaving a pup before it’s ready to be left or leaving a dog to get anxious is far more likely to cause separation anxiety.
6 hours is too long. Up to you if you sometimes leave your dog that long but please don’t give out incorrect or old advice.

@Wolfiefan

I wouldn't advise anyone to get a dog knowing they would have to leave it regularly for long periods (over 3/4 hours). However once the pup is 12 weeks old they should be ok to be left for an hour and this gradually increased. Puppies sleep a lot and if they get used to being left from a young age they are generally fine.

I'm with my dog 5 days a week but after his morning walk most days he is then alone for periods of time throughout the day, and has been from being a puppy.

Where are you getting the "new" advice from? I've had dogs for over 25 years, all from pups and different breeds and they are/were all happy, well trained dogs.

How long is the max you leave your dog for?

@bigpawsnopaws I agree with everything @steppemum said.

You would need to be able to give a Labrador at least one off lead walk a day plus another walk.

You will find you need to hoover and clean a lot more, our dog definitely creates extra housework.

You would need insurance, although I don't bother with vets plans for worming and flea treatments, I just make sure I worm him myself regularly and apply flea treatment approx 3 times a year.

Our dog costs us approx £40 per month.

Worming should be every three months.
Flea treat monthly.
With most stuff. Only ever use vet stuff. Avoid Frontline. I won’t use Bravecto.
Squirrel you clearly believe I am wrong. My pup was very clingy and I took advice from trainers who use positive reward based training only. Look into APDT and groups that follow up to date advice and not pack theory etc. If a dog is happy to be left then fine. But a young pup that’s just left the only home and family it’s ever known is likely to want to be with its new owner and family.

As PP have said, labradors as mucky hairy things and I must say the insurance on ours is now very expensive as he is elderly - he costs more than my car to insure each month! Having said that, he is gorgeous and we all love him to bits even though he now a grumpy stinky old dog who can't really be bothered with us any more! He's enriched our lives over the years so much and I'm dreading how we are going to cope when he finally goes.

@Wolfiefan

So do you ever leave your dog alone? We obviously have very different opinions, I've no idea if your dog is your first dog and so you are sticking very firmly to whatever advice you have been given?

I can only go off my own experience, if you don't leave a puppy alone at all in the first few months of bringing it home of course it will be anxious if you then try to leave it alone!

I don't agree with using flea treatments monthly, there is absolutely no need and I would not want to use harsh chemicals on my dog as often as that. I used Frontline for years but now use Effipro approx every 3-4 months. My dog has never had fleas, my previous dog had them once in 14 years. Obviously vets, drug companies & pet stores will advise monthly treatments, it makes them money!

I would echo a lot of what's been said here, one thing I would say is really do your research on breeds and what would suit with your family and lifestyle. We have a bearded collie who by nature is very anxious and needs a lot of exercise and mental stimulation. Think about whether you want a dog that you can go on long walks with every day or one that would be happy with short walks/ chilling out and then look for a breed that typically has those requirements/ temperament.

I deflea monthly. My cats would LOVE to give the dog fleas!
Modern research and dog behaviour advice says the opposite. Leave a pup too long too soon and you cause anxiety. Stay with them in the early weeks and never leave them for longer than they are happy with in the first months and you will have a dog that’s relaxed and happy to be left. Mine sighed when I left her earlier. I disturbed her sleep by picking up my keys. Yes I leave her. She’s quite happy to sleep in peace.

hmm, fleas.

Thankyou again for your thoughts. we are thinking a puppy is probably not ideal. some one asked why i was doing all the research. DS has researched too. he has friends with dogs, he walks friends dogs and has always wanted his own. He has researched expense, temprament, food, insurance, vaccinations etc.
I'm.just doing my investigation now for my benefit. if we get a dog it won't happens for weeks yet and I want us to be 100% sure which at the moment I'm probably 90% and DH 60%

It would probably be more sensible to assume the dog will be your responsibility & DS will just help out with its care, as his life for next decade has potential for lots of changes as mentioned by P

I would only get a lab if breed would suit your requirements not just DS, there could be others more suitable. There's lots of Labradors in breed specific & general rescue.
I uses to homecheck for sighthound rescues & plenty went on to successfully live with cats so needn't get a puppy ( they're also more likely to chase & annoy your cat in play). The rescues assess dogs suitability to live with cats if not already known to have lived with one & dog maybe already in foster home with cats, they can advise on introduction process to help it go smoothly, but much will depend on your own cats behavior if its nervous and runs its more likely to trigger a chase situation than one that stands its ground. Outdoors is different & dogs may still want chase others but tend to recognise own cats

Your son obviously knows lots of people with dogs as he walks them. How about asking if one of them could stay for a week or so (to cover holidays?) to see how you all get along with it. In particular a lab if he knows one. Labs shed bucketloads of hair. Personally I couldn't live with that, although we have had dogs for 20+ years, but dogs that shed a lot, no way. It might focus your minds on what breed would really suit your family and whether your DH could really be happy with a dog around.

Thanks agatha that's a good idea and it's one I've thought of. DS has 3 friends with dogs. one is a Doberman, the other has 2 very large huskies and the third is a pug. DS refuses to walk or entertain the pug, says it feels sorry for it as it can't breath and it doesn't like walking far
I don't fancy 2 huskies or a Doberman for an overnight stay

Another option is to have a go fostering a dog.

But it still doesn’t give you an idea of the tie long term or what happens when DS decides to move out into a situation that’s not suitable to have a dog and you and DH have the tie your DH has already said he doesn’t want.

You really can’t sell this to DH on the basis that the dog will go if/when DH does. Best of intentions and all that, but it really hardly ever actually happens. If you get a dog in your house you HAVE to assume that’s where it will live out it’s days.

I disagree. We had our dog as teens, my bro took it when he left home. My friend had a poodle she took with her when she left home.

Ok

Well, you asked for ‘honest views’ & you got them. It’s up to you what you choose to do with them 😊🤷🏻‍♀️

I disagree. We had our dog as teens, my bro took it when he left home. My friend had a poodle she took with her when she left home.

That's all well and good but what if your son can't take the dog with him? Lots of rentals won't allow dogs without a hefty pet deposit and a dog can be extremely restrictive too. I mean, what if the dog has been home alone all day and your son needs to work late or wants to go out? Who's going to come in and feed/walk the dog and let it out for the toilet?

Mine is one and believe me, I love him to bits but he's a huge tie. I walked him this morning and it was fabulous because the weather is amazing but I also have to take him out when it's freezing cold, pissing it with rain and there's howling winds because he needs at least one hour a day as an absolute minimum.

Days out are planned around the dog (generally we take him with us but we need to plan that in advance - is the pub/cafe dog friendly, for example), we pay for daycare while we work which is another expense (we're lucky that our daycare charges per 24h so if we're running late it's not a problem) - all these things add up. He's only one but even older dogs shouldn't be left longer than four hours at a stretch - what happens if you want a day out somewhere that's not very dog-friendly? Or if you need to go away at the last minute? What about holidays, nights out, weekends away?

All things to think about.